D&D 5E Bounded Accuracy and Asmodeus

[Mirtek]

He's stated to be a Leser deity in the MM

 

[Gwarok]

I don't think it's too hard to imagine. Remember, there have been and are actual human beings who have ruled empires of millions, some of them had extreme loyalty from their followers, even the ones that could beat them up in a fight. No human emperor has actually had 300hp, not one of them was more than a quick dagger thrust away from death, and yet they ruled. It's not all about the reach of your arm when it comes to commanding. In the abyss maybe, but in the organized lawfullness of the Hells? Even evil empires can maintain law and order and stability back home. When I think if the Nine Hells I think of Nazi Germany usually as the template for what organized evil might look like. The Abyss is more like Mad Max.

 

[dave2008]

He is listed as a god in the Sword Coast Adventurer's guide. With forgotten realms being the core setting, I think its safe to say that Asmodeus is a greater god by default. Of course you could change that, but in this case, we are referring to core.

Actually, as [MENTION=40810]Mirtek[/MENTION] said, he is a lesser deity (sort of) per the MM: "Asmodeus is the supreme ruler of all devils, and the only creature in the Nine Hells with the powers of a lesser god."

Also, depending on what your definition of "core" is, FR is not the core setting. There is no core setting (see the discrepancy between the SCAG, a FR product, and the MM, a "core" product.).

 

[Eltab]

An interesting question: what would a hypothetical doomsday weapon do that the inhabitants of Asmodeus' domain would hate and fear more than the status quo?

- All those souls of mortals that you've been tormenting and using as pawns in your games? They are infused with power; enough to fight back. Of course the souls are sore as ... umm, you know ... at you and are consumed with vengeful thoughts.
- Make every inhabitant of the Hells watch the Star Wars prequel trilogy and act like Teenaged Anakin forever thereafter.
- Every devil in the Hells turns chaotic. Now they can unload on each other without (much) repercussion!
- You are mind-controlled into behaving like an agent of Good. But your real self is still inside, powerless to affect anything, watching it all play out.
- Utter annihilation. No eternal existence, no re-forming on your home plane after being defeated elsewhere, nothing.
- Screwtape (as in C.S. Lewis) is in charge of improving your abilities at temptation.
- You lose WIS to the point that you cannot tell when somebody else is manipulating you. Nor can you figure out how to manipulate others.

 

[Mirtek]

Also, depending on what your definition of "core" is, FR is not the core setting. There is no core setting (see the discrepancy between the SCAG, a FR product, and the MM, a "core" product.).

Theres no discrepancy between the SCAG and the MM, he bot demoted at the end of the brimstone angels series, which while just Ending last year takes place prior to the current FR date

 

[Mephista]

The more complaints you raise about 5e, the more I'm certain there are better editions/systems out there for your playstyle. If you like, I'd be happy to make some recommendations. I'm all about helping people find the kind of game that best suits their needs/wants. It saddens me when people settle on playing a game that fails to meet their desires and expectations. Especially since there are so many out there. Pretty much something for everyone. The trick is finding the right fit.

I recommend Pugmire!

 

[Mephista]

On Asmodeus, Forgotten Realms, the "core," godhood, and related topics:

While technically Forgotten Realms is not the "default setting" of 5e, the Great Wheel -IS- the default, and the GW includes a wide variety of planes - the Demi-plane of Ravenloft, Sigil (Planescape), the world of Greyhawk, and, of course, Faerun of the Forgotten Realms, and far more. There's a lot of crossover between all these places if you look, but there's likewise parts that don't cross over.

Yes, the Monster Manual does say that Asmodeus has the powers of a lesser god. It doesn't explicity -say- that he is a god, however. Furthermore, the curious lack of mention or list of the big red archfiend in the list of gods is rather notable.

I'm bringing all this up because I'm fairly sure that all this leads to one solution - the writers don't want to say one way or another if Asmodeus is officially a god or not. I think that the writers are leaving it up to individuals to determine if Asmodeus is a god or not. There's a lot of people that want him as a god for various reasons, there's a lot of people that think he's more badass as a non-deity that's just as strong as one. Given that the purpose of 5e was an attempt to appeal to as wide a variety of dnd players as possible? Its ideal to just not say and let everyone make their own call.

Personally, as long as there are options for paladins of tyranny, fiendish warlocks, and satanic cleric-led cults, I'm happy with whatever answer. The rest is immaterial.

 

[CapnZapp]

The more complaints you raise about 5e, the more I'm certain there are better editions/systems out there for your playstyle. If you like, I'd be happy to make some recommendations. I'm all about helping people find the kind of game that best suits their needs/wants. It saddens me when people settle on playing a game that fails to meet their desires and expectations. Especially since there are so many out there. Pretty much something for everyone. The trick is finding the right fit.

No, and you know it.

5e is superior to every edition before it, and it's the only one I can bear. Please cut out the "go somewhere else" spiel.

Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app

 

[TheCosmicKid]

Why would they hate that? Would you rather be:

(1) Tormented for eternity by Asmodeus and his cronies? Or
(2) In heaven studying music, painting, and doing whatever else people in heaven do?

I could maybe buy it if the threat was "tormented by Tanar'ri for eternity", since those guys are just as cruel as Baatezu but they hate you even more. I could also buy a hierarchy-inversion scenario ("Asmodeus has a weapon that turns all lemures into Pit Fiends and all Pit Fiends into lemures", etc.). I don't think threatening bad guys with rule by kindness, goodness, and compassion works as a doomsday threat, though, compared to the other two scenarios.

The Heavens are compassionate, but they are also just. I don't think they'd just let fiends frolic around on verdant meadows strumming their complementary golden harps. They would judge them fairly for their crimes. And for a devil who's spent an eternity committing monstrous evil and wrapping it in shrouds of deception and legalistic rationalization, there may be no fate more horrible than having all those shrouds stripped away and being called to account by a Heavenly law that is as honest and incorruptible as Hell's is twisted and cruel. Throw them to the demons, and yeah, they'll be torn to pieces and destroyed, but they can still die with pride. Put them on trial and they are deflated. Why do you think so many real-life dictators and war criminals kill themselves rather than be brought into a courtroom?

Also, on the level of plot cohesion, Asmodeus is himself a fallen angel, so there's a connection there to make this "superweapon" more plausible. Some legal power he has retained from his glory days or some loophole he can exploit. Perhaps it's as simple as him bequeathing Hell to Heaven in a cosmically-binding last will.

 

[Corwin]

No, and you know it.

No, what? What are you telling me I know?

5e is superior to every edition before it, and it's the only one I can bear.

From where I'm sitting, this flies in the face of all evidence. I'm genuinely shocked to hear you make such a claim, given your posting history. Heck, you've got quite a thread going on right now where you rail once more against the very heart of the design of 5e. So, no. The only thing I know is that I still think there are other editions, or entirely different systems, far better suited for you, based on your ample posting history. Claims you make to the contrary, in the moment, not withstanding.

Please cut out the "go somewhere else" spiel.

I challenge you to find where I said any such thing. I didn't even ask you to stop posting here.