[BoVD]Well, since I can't seem to post this on Wizards forums...

[JeffB]

LOL ( that is what I was talking about Jeff and yes I am laughing even harder now! LOL ) Hey Jeff I think I know you from Dragonsfoot. Over there, my name is Ermanaric.

Aye, I do know the name and post occasionally at DF. Enjoy your stay here!

 

[The Sigil]

JeffB and herald...

I appreciate both of your points, but let's go straight to the heart of the matter...

I was talking about people who shaped the game.

I don't care when thier publishing dates are.

You can discount Greenwood's and Lakofka contributions in Dragon Magazine all you want. But it thier repeated and consistant work helped create an interest in the game that Is without a doubt more significat than Hickman's.

The fact of the matter is, I think you will have a hard time convincing each other that one is more significant than the other. And to be honest, I think you are both downplaying each others' "Favorites" in an attempt to strengthen your own positions.

If you were to ask people to name the #1 Favorite Campaign Setting of all time for D&D, you would likely get "the Forgotten Realms." I would suggest that Greenwood's Realms were influenced by earlier work to some extent, but doubtless is the campaign setting that, for good or ill, has had the greatest impact on the way campaigns are played. Greenwood has probably had the biggest effect on DMs and campaign creation of anyone around.

If you were to ask people to name the top 5 modules ever published, I'd be willing to bet the Desert of Desolation series is near the top of the list for most people who have read them. Also, don't discount the popularity of the Dragonlance novels - those novels were wildly popular in their day and shaped the conceptions people had about the "typical" fantasy world and often were gateways into D&D for the casual fantasy fan. IMO Hickman has done as much for establishing the "mood" of high fantasy as anyone and is probably the most influential person in terms of creating BBEGs and establishing the D&D milieu as anyone.

Now, me, personally, I hate the Realms and all the garbage that comes with them (IMO R.A. Salvatore has had a bigger hand in the Realms than Greenwood for the last decade-plus) but I like Dragonlance even less. While I appreciate that both made huge contributions, I can't say I'm necessarily a fan of either of them (I'm not). I like certain pieces of work that they did, but IMO, both have had a huge effect on the hobby and it would be difficult to rate one ahead of the other in terms of influence.

All my opinions of course, but there they are.

--The Sigil

 

[Dinkeldog]

Okay, so little pedantic arguments between people that aren't on topic are annoying, y'all know? Can we drop those going now and get back to the subject. Thanks.

 

[herald]

You do realize that Dragon Pre-dates 1st edition, Right....

And that Lakofka was one of Gary's DM's. I mean you did understand that right.

And that Ed was a Oe player and that his articals were drawn mostly from his Oe material?

The fact is since Greyhawk Campaign predates 1ed and that the took the Oe material, revamped it for 1e.

Jeff, you just don't know your stuff.

 

[herald]

Except that thing about the Dod series. you were right on the money on that.

 

[Dinkeldog]

You do realize that Dragon Pre-dates 1st edition, Right....

And that Lakofka was one of Gary's DM's. I mean you did understand that right.

And that Ed was a Oe player and that his articals were drawn mostly from his Oe material?

The fact is since Greyhawk Campaign predates 1ed and that the took the Oe material, revamped it for 1e.

Jeff, you just don't know your stuff.

Okay, so I have this problem where I post things and people say, "Pedantic argument? That can't be me."

For the record, this is a pedantic argument. Quite hijacking the thread and save it for Jeopardy.

 

[JeffB]

I'm not playing faves at all..I don't even really like RL and barring the first novel trilogy I could care less about Tracy Hickman. I also thought Len's modules were poor compared to his contemporaries.

My point is simply that regardless if Len Lakofka washed Gary's car or did an article in Dragon..they were both putting out AD&D products in the same time period..neither published a D&D product under OD&D rules. In my first post I said "nitpick" and I meant it..Barring that... I was playing before the 1E books were published, so AFAIC they are both Second Generation..

I could care less...really...I just made a nitpick about using a purported "fact" as a means to "win" an argument...

But as I said before..let's get back to the thread at hand...I've said all I'm going to say on the matter.


EDIT: Sorry Dinkle..saw your post after this one.


Enjoy..

 

[Son_of_Thunder]

Thanks Folks!!!

Yup, others have wondered where I was, and here I am. I posted while I was at work (a no no... hush be vewwy quiet). And I check about once a day. I appreciate the civil tone that has been here.


Son of Thunder

 

[Zulkir]

Sure, your basic good vs. evil where the PCs play the good guys whose goal is to overcome evil. The fact that such a game can contain undead or violence does not exclude it from being a family game. Violence is used in real world situations everyday for good (cops shooting and killing criminals). When the situations used above are clearly defined as evil actions then the social, team-building, and moral lessons are valuable.

Taking your example, one can criticize previously mentioned John Wayne movies. They show murder, theft, lieing etc. But in context they are morality plays. Those things are clearly defined as bad and force is used to overcome evil.

Society really has changd. When I was young, and we played cops & robbers everyone wanted to be the good guys. In fact, nobody played the robbers, they were imaginary since no one wanted to play them. In roleplaying games, I've seen too many games where the good guys are imaginary. I think that is sad. People are better for being encouraged to be more than they are, even in pretend.

So, by this post I assume you are in favor of BoVD?

AV

 

[SemperJase]

So, by this post I assume you are in favor of BoVD?
AV

I hope you are being ironic

For the record though, I will be passing on BoVD. I certainly will discourage players from using it as a resourse for PC feats as Dragon 300 suggests in the How far will you take it? article.