[BoVD]Well, since I can't seem to post this on Wizards forums...

[Morrus]

Now for anyone who accepts thevalidity of that opinion, then I will happily accept your opinion. It's as simple as that. But if you don't accept that vileness has it's aesthetic charms, then I'm under no obligation to accept the opinion that 'sweetness and light' does as well.

It's not a trade! You don't choose what you believe. You either believe that 'sweetness and light' do as well - or you don't; you don't decide to believe it just because someone else has accepted your view on 'vileness'.

 

[Olive]

I'm not sure how old you are, but the demographic is getting older. I believe the median age is now in the mid-20s for gamers. That is old enough to have kids. When I started playing, the average age was much younger. The market was very different.

Now WotC needs to take into account what the older generation is going to say about the hobby. Unlike years past, more gamers will be getting their introduction to the game from their parents.

since you brought it up, i'm 26... some of my friends are starting to get married others are having kids. but this doesn't actually address what either of us said before. you said that the hobby needs parents introducing their kids to DnD to grow. I refute that...

Well, there are more publishers than WotC releasing 'vile' content. The WotC/Paizzo trend has admitted by the publisher has been to push the envelope. As WotC is the industry leader, they set the standard hence the criticism for them specifically. Still, the three items you mention is not all inclusive.

Thankfully, WotC and Paizzo seems to indicate this is not a permanent path. We are posting so that they will hopefully make wiser choices in the future.

again, you said they were heading in a certain direction, and i said that three things did not a direction make. i'm perfectly aware of the direction the industry is taking, but thats not what we're talking about...

 

[Morrus]

Re: Well, since I can't seem to post this on Wizards forums...

There was a prime example for this when the thread on ENWorld started after Tracy Hickman’s newsletter was released. Several of the “moderator’s”, and I use that term loosely, added to the flames.

Example, please. I very much dislike being accused of things, especially when, as far as I can tell, they're basically made up.

 

[Dragongirl]

That was a nasty thread, but as far as I can recall, no ENworld moderators I know were "adding to the flames".

 

[Sammael99]

I'm not sure how old you are, but the demographic is getting older. I believe the median age is now in the mid-20s for gamers. That is old enough to have kids. When I started playing, the average age was much younger. The market was very different.

Now WotC needs to take into account what the older generation is going to say about the hobby. Unlike years past, more gamers will be getting their introduction to the game from their parents.

I agree with you on the fact that some parents are going to introduce their kids to RPGing. I know I certainly will give it a go, and if my kids like it, all the better.

However, I must strongly refute the idea that this should be taken into account by RPG designers. My role as a parent is to make sure that I know what my kids are watching on TV, reading and (if they RP) playing. Delegating that responsability to a publisher and/or machinery (I'm thinking of the TVs that automatically cut out content of specific ratings) would not only be irresponsible on my part, it would be lazy.

So, in other words, when my son is old enough to enjoy RPing, if he's interested, he will have access to those books which I think he can 'safely' use and not to those which I think he's too young for, in the same way that I will watch Dark Crystal or Princess Bride with him and not Alien or Conan, in the same way that I will lend him Harry Potter of the LotR and not James Ellroy's novels. When he's old enough to exert proper judgement, he'll see for himself.

Shifting one's responsability as parents to whoever produces content is lazyness.

 

[Sammael99]

Re: Re: Well, since I can't seem to post this on Wizards forums...

Example, please. I very much dislike being accused of things, especially when, as far as I can tell, they're basically made up.

Morrus,

I certainly don't recall any moderators fanning the flames, quite the contrary.

However, I must admit to having been originally surprised at the fact that Tracy's rant was "officially" published on the forums. I believe that, had Tracy been an unknown contributor like most of the rest of us, his contribution would immediately have been edited because of the offensive comparisons and inflammatory accusations he was making (quite independantly of the point he was trying to make).

And then I thought, if Morrus hadn't posted it, someone else would have. Still, I had an odd feeling for a few seconds...

 

[Havoc]

The Book of Vile Darkness is the anti bible, I shall buy it just for the sake of ripping the pages out and burn them.
I have not read it yet but it is certainly much worse than AEG's Evil.
Monte Cook is the vilest D&D author ever, aiding WoTC to corrupts our families.
Speaking of WoTC, they are just capitalist pigs out to steal the money from our purse with half-finished products full of decadent art. And Dragon, they just use evil as marketing ploy! Imagine that some magazines could do the same with *sex*!
They shall all burn in the flames of Hell!
We should all play games set in a universe where Morality is respected.
Smurf RPG, anyone?

 

[Sammael99]

Smurf RPG, anyone?

I've always thought that would be a great idea.

Although I must insist that the smurfette be banned from the smurf rpg since here presence in the comics is always ripe with sexual innuendo...

Havoc, go finish reading my Story Hour instead of making me laugh

 

[Zappo]

I hope you are being ironic

I don't think he was being completely ironic. The BoVD has as its primary objective to depict really evil NPCs. If you are going to use the game to teach moral lessons, it can undoubtedly be useful. The fact that it can be used for PCs is a completely secondary purpose.

I say that half-heartedly. The whole purpose of a discussion board is to sway people's opinion to your way of thinking.

Not really, the purpose is to exchange information and opinions. Of course I'm happy when I can persuade someone, but the main reason I post is to gather information, or to better understand a problem or the way people think. I gave up on swaying people through message boards long time ago.

 

[Havoc]

I've always thought that would be a great idea.

Although I must insist that the smurfette be banned from the smurf rpg since here presence in the comics is always ripe with sexual innuendo...

Havoc, go finish reading my Story Hour instead of making me laugh

I really did a mini smurf campaign muhuhahaha