Wulf Ratbane
Adventurer
Piratecat said:
Maybe he should just auction off the rights to know.
Make a patronage project out of it. I'm good for $20.
Boy, Does It Ever Suck Not Getting Paid!
- Thread starter John Cooper
- Start date
Maybe he should just auction off the rights to know.
Make a patronage project out of it. I'm good for $20.
PatrickLawinger
First Post
Ouch
John,
I hate to say it, but I am owed a total of thousands of dollars from a variety of projects over the past 8+ years. Like you, I never publicly "outed" the companies in question. I do admit to private discussions with some other freelancers though.
In some cases you can consult a collection agency, but with your sum of money it probably isn't worth it. The agency usually claims about 20% of what they finally collect (sometimes higher when it is smaller amounts). It is a hassle, but this did work for me in a complicated situation when one company bought another, and then sold "assets" off to a third company. In that case I also paid a legal consultant so in the end I collected about 60% of what I was owed, but as I was owed $2,200 it was significantly more than $0.
Last year I spoke to the owner of one company in person while at GenCon, and stood there with him while he wrote the check.
Efforts to collect CAN pay off, but more often than not, if a company isn't paying, they just aren't paying. Some companies do have a reputation for paying slowly. When you are dealing with smaller sums of money, the hassle to try to collect tends to be less and less worth it. Every year at tax time I review the contracts that I still haven't been paid for. I get furious each and every time.
As someone starting my own .pdf company, I have made an effort to insure I pay people on time (or early as I still don't have releases ready). This is due to my own experiences of not being paid. My motto is, "I pay like crap, but at least I'll pay you!"
Good luck,
Patrick
John,
I hate to say it, but I am owed a total of thousands of dollars from a variety of projects over the past 8+ years. Like you, I never publicly "outed" the companies in question. I do admit to private discussions with some other freelancers though.
In some cases you can consult a collection agency, but with your sum of money it probably isn't worth it. The agency usually claims about 20% of what they finally collect (sometimes higher when it is smaller amounts). It is a hassle, but this did work for me in a complicated situation when one company bought another, and then sold "assets" off to a third company. In that case I also paid a legal consultant so in the end I collected about 60% of what I was owed, but as I was owed $2,200 it was significantly more than $0.
Last year I spoke to the owner of one company in person while at GenCon, and stood there with him while he wrote the check.
Efforts to collect CAN pay off, but more often than not, if a company isn't paying, they just aren't paying. Some companies do have a reputation for paying slowly. When you are dealing with smaller sums of money, the hassle to try to collect tends to be less and less worth it. Every year at tax time I review the contracts that I still haven't been paid for. I get furious each and every time.
As someone starting my own .pdf company, I have made an effort to insure I pay people on time (or early as I still don't have releases ready). This is due to my own experiences of not being paid. My motto is, "I pay like crap, but at least I'll pay you!"
Good luck,
Patrick
Mouseferatu
Hero
Piratecat said:
Agreed.
BSF
Explorer
As a consumer, I would be interested in knowing. If I am buying product that is lining somebody's pocket while contract work is not being paid, then I have no interest in buying the product.
Of course, it could be that nobody is buying the product and the loss of non-existent sales won't mean anything.
However, it would be interesting to know the company so I can watch the principals. If you aren't being paid and any of the principals forms a new company, I would be interested in avoiding product from the new company as well.
It is a small market, but you deserve to be paid. As contract work, you are not responsible for their ability/inability to make sales. If they don't intend to pay you, then perhaps public shaming is the only real recourse.
Of course, it could be that nobody is buying the product and the loss of non-existent sales won't mean anything.
However, it would be interesting to know the company so I can watch the principals. If you aren't being paid and any of the principals forms a new company, I would be interested in avoiding product from the new company as well.
It is a small market, but you deserve to be paid. As contract work, you are not responsible for their ability/inability to make sales. If they don't intend to pay you, then perhaps public shaming is the only real recourse.
Klaus
First Post
John,
I certainly know how you feel. At one time I was approached by one of the larger d20 companies with an emergency request of 3 color illustrations for $100. The deadline was really tight, like two days or so. Wanting to impress the company, I did the pictures.
A while later I e-mailed the Art Director who contacted me to ask if I could get a copy of the product my pictures were in, and asking when I might expect the payment. Embarassed, he said they never used my pictures, but as a sign of good faith and as an apology for not contacting me, he would pay me the $100 nevertheless.
Well, he didn't. And that was two years ago.
I certainly know how you feel. At one time I was approached by one of the larger d20 companies with an emergency request of 3 color illustrations for $100. The deadline was really tight, like two days or so. Wanting to impress the company, I did the pictures.
A while later I e-mailed the Art Director who contacted me to ask if I could get a copy of the product my pictures were in, and asking when I might expect the payment. Embarassed, he said they never used my pictures, but as a sign of good faith and as an apology for not contacting me, he would pay me the $100 nevertheless.
Well, he didn't. And that was two years ago.
John Cooper
Explorer
Well, once again, posting here worked: I got a response from the second individual I've been dealing with, the one who appears to me to genuinely want to resolve the situation fairly. I've been promised payment of the full $120.00 by the end of June. (He tells me he'll be dipping into his tax refund and/or economic stimulus package.) I really want to believe him, because he seems like a decent guy caught up in a situation somewhat beyond his ability to control (despite it also being one of his - and his company partner's - own making).
So, this is their last chance. On July 1st, I'll go public with their names if I haven't received my payment by then. If I get my payment before then, I'll post here so everyone knows the situation's been resolved.
Thanks to everyone once again for their support, and if you don't hear anything before then...stayed tuned for a final post on July 1st.
So, this is their last chance. On July 1st, I'll go public with their names if I haven't received my payment by then. If I get my payment before then, I'll post here so everyone knows the situation's been resolved.
Thanks to everyone once again for their support, and if you don't hear anything before then...stayed tuned for a final post on July 1st.
TheAuldGrump
First Post
That's no way to handle it!Wulf Ratbane said:Maybe he should just auction off the rights to know.
Make a patronage project out of it. I'm good for $20.
Use the $20 to start a pool instead....
The Auld Grump
economic stimulus
If it's the latter, prepare your post. Unless he's getting the amount electronically, he may not see a check in the mail until the third or even fourth quarter this year.
I'm definitely keeping an eye out on this post. Having worked both as a free-lancer and, now, managing a team of freelancers, prompt payment -- or at least contact -- is a simple sign of good business sense. I'm sorry that this company is having problems, but they don't call business "cut throat" for nothing, and they'll discover that if they don't pay up and force you to make your post. You definitely have been more than patient with them and if I discover I have any of this company's products, I'll be quickly voting with my dollars bills what I think of such policies (and heaven help them if their products are in my review queue....)
John Cooper said:
If it's the latter, prepare your post. Unless he's getting the amount electronically, he may not see a check in the mail until the third or even fourth quarter this year.
I'm definitely keeping an eye out on this post. Having worked both as a free-lancer and, now, managing a team of freelancers, prompt payment -- or at least contact -- is a simple sign of good business sense. I'm sorry that this company is having problems, but they don't call business "cut throat" for nothing, and they'll discover that if they don't pay up and force you to make your post. You definitely have been more than patient with them and if I discover I have any of this company's products, I'll be quickly voting with my dollars bills what I think of such policies (and heaven help them if their products are in my review queue....)
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