Bracers that stack?

[WaroftheSendros]

As mentioned already, the Bracers of Armor and the actual armor don't stack since they're both an armor bonus to AC. Mage Armor likewise does not stack with either the bracers or the full plate because it too is an armor bonus though since it's a force effect it would grant that bonus against incorporeal attacks, unlike normal full plate. And finally, Inertial Armor is also an armor bonus and the power itself explicitly says it doesn't stack with regular armor, but like Mage Armor it would protect against incorporeal attacks.

Did you actually read the rules for all those effects before letting them stack? As per the normal rules, they definitely don't.

As for the discussion about Defending, one can argue that the wording "stacks will all others" means it stacks with everything other than itself. Even if the players don't interpret it that way, that's almost certainly exactly what the designers intended it to be because it stacking with itself is nonsensical and could very well become broken. Note that it can be applied to shuriken, and since they're enhanced as ammunition it would be relatively cheap to get 50 of them (since 50 of them at +5, or technically +6 for defending) costs the same as a single +6 regular weapon, and stack all of them for a +250 AC boost.

I mentioned in another thread that I have very little experience with psions or psychic warriors, the little info I do have really is from the DnD Tactics game on the PSP, in which all these things are allowed to stack. I'll have to get the book off the player and check this. As a side question, would bracers of armour stack with armour that doesn't have bracers inbuilt?

War of the Sendros

 

[Empirate]

I strongly recommend that you check out the basic general stacking rules found here.

The gist of it: most modifiers in the game have a type. Modifiers of the same type don't stack. Modifiers of different types usually stack with each other. All you have to do is look up what kinds of modifiers apply.

Bracers of Armor provide an armor bonus to AC. So does actual worn armor. Therefore, Bracers or Armor and e.g. a Chainshirt don't stack, but overlap (only the highest bonus applies). A Heavy Wooden Shield, or a Shield spell, on the other hand, provides a shield bonus. Since this is a different type of modifier, it stacks with the AC bonus provided by Bracers of Armor/Chainshirt.

Note that there are some effects that provide untyped modifiers. These usually stack with all other (typed) modifiers, but don't stack with each other if they are from the same source. E.g., casting multiple Rays of Enfeeblement on the same target won't make it any feebler than one (untyped Str penalty, but from the same source); whereas casting a Ray of Enfeeblement followed by a Ray of Exhaustion will result in stacking untyped Str penalties.

 

[Greenfield]

Ray of Enfeeblement and Ray of Exhaustion are a bad example, since the first applies a Strength penalty and the second one doesn't.

In that arena, note the difference between Ability score "damage", "drain" and "penalty".

Ability score Damage stacks, even from the same source, just like hit point damage from multiple Fireballs stack.

Ability score Drain, on the other hand, doesn't. (Note that while the SRD describes Ray of Enfeeblement as doing Strength "damage", in the brief spell listing, the spell itself describes it as a "penalty". The telling point on this is that it puts a cap of the effect, saying you can't drain something's Strength score below 1.)

Ability Damage comes back at a rate of one point per day. Ability Drain (or Penalty) goes away as soon as the spell effect ends.

As far as AC is concerned: Dodge bonuses stack with everything, including other Dodge bonuses.

"Enhancement" bonuses were mentioned earlier. These aren't a separate bonus type, but simply an addition or increase to another bonus.

For example, a +2 Enhancement bonus on your armor adds to your Armor Bonus. A +2 Enhancement bonus on your shield would stack with the Enhancement bonus on your armor, since it's enhancing your Shield bonus. A second Enhancement bonus to either armor or shield wouldn't stack though.

An Enhancement bonus on a weapon adds to attacks and damage, and those don't stack either. That is, if you have a +1 magic sword and you cast Greater Magic Weapon on it (bonus of up to +5 based on caster level) you only get the greater of the two bonuses, not the sum of the two.

Confused yet?

 

[Jackinthegreen]

I mentioned in another thread that I have very little experience with psions or psychic warriors, the little info I do have really is from the DnD Tactics game on the PSP, in which all these things are allowed to stack. I'll have to get the book off the player and check this. As a side question, would bracers of armour stack with armour that doesn't have bracers inbuilt?

War of the Sendros

The Bracers of Armor are an Armor Bonus (SRD link is already up, but you can find the list of bonus types on page 21 in the DMG), which is the same type as, well, regular armor. So no, they wouldn't stack, even if the armor itself had bracers (which none explicitly do I believe. Some do come with gauntlets though.)

As far as source experience goes, one of the best pieces of advice one can give to any DM is if the player can't (or won't) provide the source for an effect and let you the DM look at it, don't allow it. Period.

One of the other big pieces of advice is know certain rules by heart, or at least be willing (and able) to look them up at a moment's notice. I'm sorry it seems like obvious hindsight now, but it's really something people keep forgetting. D&D 3.x is very, very crunchy.

 

[Nezkrul]

Ray of Enfeeblement and Ray of Exhaustion are a bad example, since the first applies a Strength penalty and the second one doesn't.

Look up the exhausted and fatigued conditions before you say something like this

Ability score Drain, on the other hand, doesn't.

Drain absolutely stacks, as it is permanent, and doesn't heal like ability damage does on its own; it requires Restoration, Heal, or Greater Restoration to get drain back.

As far as AC is concerned: Dodge bonuses stack with everything, including other Dodge bonuses.

Almost right, dodge bonuses stack with everything and themselves - so long as they are from different sources.

"Enhancement" bonuses were mentioned earlier. These aren't a separate bonus type, but simply an addition or increase to another bonus.

So, what does a Bull's Strength spell, or Gauntlets of Ogre Power +2 enhance? Again, wrong. Enhancement bonus is absolutely a bonus type; It is the staple and main type of bonus on anything. The confusing item would be the Amulet of Natural Armor, as that item does exactly what you just mentioned.

 

[Greenfield]

Easy boy, turn down the aggression.

My comments on "enhancement bonus" were specific to AC, as were all of my examples. Go back and read the whole thing again, with the "righteous anger" options turned off, and you'll see what I mean.

Regarding Ray of Exhaustion v Ray of Enfeeblement: You're right, I overlooked that fact atst the effects of Exhaustion include penalties to Strength and Dex. I'll add an odd caveat though, when stacking those two spells: Unless the -6 from Ray of Exhaustion alone is enough to drop someone's Strength below one, the combination can't either. The effects of Ray of Enfeeblement carry that limit.

Regarding Dodge bonuses: I wasn't "almost right", I was right. Read again. They stack with anything, including Other dodge bonuses. (But not more of the same dodge bonus.)

Regarding Drain, Penalty and Damage to Ability Scores: You're right, I lumped Drain and Penalty together and I shouldn't have. Mea culpa.

 

[Nezkrul]

i'm not angry, nor defensive about being told when I'm wrong.

You said "dodge bonuses stack with everything." that's all you said, hence my "almost right" statement.

the penalties provided by ray of enfeeblement and the exhaustion status are penalties, and the rule is that penalties stack from different sources but can never lower an attribute below 1 - only damage and drain can drop it below 1.

 

[Greenfield]

i'm not angry, nor defensive about being told when I'm wrong.

You said "dodge bonuses stack with everything." that's all you said, hence my "almost right" statement.

the penalties provided by ray of enfeeblement and the exhaustion status are penalties, and the rule is that penalties stack from different sources but can never lower an attribute below 1 - only damage and drain can drop it below 1.

My exact words were (and I quoted them earlier): "As far as AC is concerned: Dodge bonuses stack with everything, including other Dodge bonuses."

You apparently stopped reading at the comma. (Your version has a period there, while the original continued.) Go back and read the original post if you doubt me. No "last edited on" date attached, and the sentence exactly as I've quoted it. While "including other Dodge bonuses" might not be as explicit as you'd prefer, it means exactly what it says. Other dodge bonuses.

Thank you, by the way, for the details on penalties. They may be useful.

 

[Nezkrul]

is there a almface: emoticon?

 

[Greenfield]

If there was, I'd be it's biggest fan.