D&D 5E Brain Storm Lunging Attack Maneuver

[Garthanos]

Every time I scroll past the title of this thread I misread it as "Brain Storm Laughing Attack Maneuver" - which, if it doesn't exist, should.

Are you wanting fighters to be Bards again because vicious mockery can be pretty brutal

 

[Fenris-77]

Can it be countered with Brain Freeze Icy Defense? That's the one where I use my off hand to hurl popsicles while parrying madly.

 

[Garthanos]

I rewrote Lunge and combined the basic rule "extend reach by 5 feet" to the mechanics of the Barbarian's "Reckless Attack". It now reads for me:

I may consider making 2 lunges one being a Reckless Lunge (I think yours needs more damage boost as 5 feet is unlikely to provide an attack opportunity you do not have) and the other the Protected Lunge like described above (aka Spanish Circle Destreza Style).

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

As I see it, there are two things that you could leverage to adjust the Lunge maneuver.

One would be to represent the surprise value of hitting an opponent who thought they were out of your reach.
Another would be representing it as an "all in" attack rather than the sequence of attacks that normal combat is assumed to be.

The first would be tricky because other than just advantage on the attack roll, there aren't that many ways of representing it that aren't too niche.
The second might be the best bet:
"As an action, make an attack with a melee weapon you are wielding, treating it as having a reach 5ft greater than normal. If the attack hits, add your superiority dice to the damage. If you have the Extra Attack feature treat your weapon's reach as 10ft greater and double the damage from the attack before adding the superiority dice."

 

[Garthanos]

Another would be representing it as an "all in" attack rather than the sequence of attacks that normal combat is assumed to be.

The second might be the best bet:
"As an action, make an attack with a melee weapon you are wielding, treating it as having a reach 5ft greater than normal. If the attack hits, add your superiority dice to the damage. If you have the Extra Attack feature treat your weapon's reach as 10ft greater and double the damage from the attack before adding the superiority dice."

I am still thinking in terms of a Maneuver ie mostly designed for fighters so the "as an action" is off is some fashion
That said as a maneuver its numerically close
The CS die value is adds an Attack Opportunity you wouldn't have gotten + CS die worth of damage if it works for price of a CS die. I rethought and you seem to have the value clase as a normal cs die. A riposte advantage is not exactly combined with an attack it just adds one... so if you choose to use it to boost your next attack the price works out.

The biggest problem with the idea for me is that it is not situational and too easy to target. A riposte kind of happens when it wants to less when you want it *though if you buff your defenses its still pretty much against anyone you are fighting so its not that different either.

In 3e and 4e it would be situationally valuable to overcome DR but is less tactical in 5e.
as it only gains a little situational benefit if some other effect grants you advantage or inspiration to improve a single attack accuracy (which would not benefit two).

We could add the charge element back in ... ie you must start 10 feet or more away doing the lunge ie move in a straight line 10 feet towards them to gain momentum advantage.

 

[Garthanos]

Note the must move 10 feet provides some positional situational limit which i think is part of maneuvers.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

I am still thinking in terms of a Maneuver ie mostly designed for fighters so the "as an action" is off is some fashion

I'd suggest increasing the damage again if Extra Attacks gives you more than one attack per attack action. I only tent to plan things up to level 10ish.

I decided to have it as an action and increase damage rather than as an attack, because I wanted to consolidate all the damage of a full attack sequence into one maneuver. Rather than force the BM to have to spend extra SD to make all their attacks from that range.
An alternate writing could simply involve spending the SD and then all your attacks for that turn count as having the increased reach. However, this doesn't preserve the image of the single decisive attack, and I wasn't sure what to do with the result of the SD roll.

That said as a maneuver its numerically close
The CS die value is adds an Attack Opportunity you wouldn't have gotten + CS die worth of damage if it works for price of a CS die. I rethought and you seem to have the value clase as a normal cs die. A riposte advantage is not exactly combined with an attack it just adds one... so if you choose to use it to boost your next attack the price works out.

The biggest problem with the idea for me is that it is not situational and too easy to target. A riposte kind of happens when it wants to less when you want it *though if you buff your defenses its still pretty much against anyone you are fighting so its not that different either.

In 3e and 4e it would be situationally valuable to overcome DR but is less tactical in 5e.
as it only gains a little situational benefit if some other effect grants you advantage or inspiration to improve a single attack accuracy (which would not benefit two).

We could add the charge element back in ... ie you must start 10 feet or more away doing the lunge ie move in a straight line 10 feet towards them to gain momentum advantage.

The idea was less as a tool for getting through 3.5e-style DR and more the ability to attack from a range that you don't need to disengage from and avoiding any aura or backlash effects.

This is pretty situational. I think given the surprise that the lunge is supposed to be, and the fact that you're putting all your eggs in one basket, making the attack roll with Advantage is fine.

 

[Garthanos]

I'd suggest increasing the damage again if Extra Attacks gives you more than one attack per attack action. I only tent to plan things up to level 10ish.

Yeh before that point "as an action" is ok ... and since I like to start at 5 through 15 so I would want scaling by number of extra attacks as you say.

I decided to have it as an action and increase damage rather than as an attack, because I wanted to consolidate all the damage of a full attack sequence into one maneuver. Rather than force the BM to have to spend extra SD to make all their attacks from that range.

Various things in 5e use the language forgo an attack to do X... such could be used to allow better scaling of attacks within it.

The idea was less as a tool for getting through 3.5e-style DR and more the ability to attack from a range that you don't need to disengage from and avoiding any aura or backlash effects.

Good point those are both very situational benefits since one could argue DR isn't totally prolific in the last 2 editions either though I think the situational of being actually able to hit through solid defenses is an Aggressive flavor that fits ALL IN. where as not being retaliated on by the odd aura or such is flavorwise the opposite.

This has steady freddy value comparable to riposte... but can be focus fired on the target you want easier.

I think given the surprise that the lunge is supposed to be, and the fact that you're putting all your eggs in one basket, making the attack roll with Advantage is fine.

Nods you may be right there is a disadvantage inherent ahem easter basket issue and what one compares it to is not altogether sitchie either ie the situationality of a riposte is pretty meh anyway I mean ummm somebody missing you? ok how many fights does that NOT happen.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Yeh before that point "as an action" is ok ... and since I like to start at 5 through 15 so I would want scaling by number of extra attacks as you say.

Various things in 5e use the language forgo an attack to do X... such could be used to allow better scaling of attacks within it.


Good point those are both very situational benefits since one could argue DR isn't totally prolific in the last 2 editions either though I think the situational of being actually able to hit through solid defenses is an Aggressive flavor that fits ALL IN. where as not being retaliated on by the odd aura or such is flavorwise the opposite.

This has steady freddy value comparable to riposte... but can be focus fired on the target you want easier.


Nods you may be right there is a disadvantage inherent ahem easter basket issue and what one compares it to is not altogether sitchie either ie the situationality of a riposte is pretty meh anyway I mean ummm somebody missing you? ok how many fights does that NOT happen.

Another option would be to allow other maneuvers to be used on it. So you can use it to deliver not just damage from a safer distance, but also maneuver effects.

 

[Garthanos]

Another option would be to allow other maneuvers to be used on it. So you can use it to deliver not just damage from a safer distance, but also maneuver effects.

They certainly put caps on combining maneuvers... certainly seems like a possibility of this attack mostly pumps damage so you can combine it.