Brainstorm: Daily Exploits & Quests

[LostSoul]

In my hack I'm thinking about changing Daily Exploits. The basic idea is that they are somehow tied to Quests.

The problem is: If the player can set any Quest that he wants, it's not much of a limiting factor.

Here is the possible solution: When I was looking at my hex map, I thought: Players can pick Quests based on the stuff that's in each hex. The players have access to information; such as this entry:

Rumour has it that a band of dwarves went into the Stonemarches in search of gold and glory shortly after the Bloodspear War. No one has heard or seen any sign of them since.​

This catches the player's eye, and he says, "I want a Quest to discover the lost dwarven fortress." The DM tells him the level - "It's level 6" - and we go from there.

Now somehow the Quest and the Daily Exploits are tied together. While the player is pursuing the Quest he can use the Daily Exploits. Players can ditch the Quest but they can't ever pick the same one up again.

But how often? I was thinking 1 + the difference in your level and the Quest's level, minimum of 1. I'm not sure if that would work for the harder areas, like Lairs with thousands of orcs.

Thoughts?

 

[SageofMusic]

What do you mean by daily exploits? Daily powers? And how would you change them depending on the quest?

 

[LostSoul]

Daily powers for martial characters.

The player would pick a power - Comeback Strike, for example - like normal; he would only get to use it a certain number of times, or something, while trying to achieve his Quest.

I'm pretty sure there is something to this, but I don't know if I can make it work.

 

[SageofMusic]

That seems kind of needlessly restrictive to me. How would you explain that in-game? I could see how it would affect people like wizards (because in previous editions they would forget the words to a spell they just cast) but for martial powers? A daily exploit for fighters is something that they have trained and trained to be able to do, but it is so exhausting, mentally and physically, that they can't do it more than once a day or be completely drained. Having them "forget" how to do it just seems odd. What you could do instead is give them something like a magic weapon just for the duration of the quest. Artifacts in the DMG already explain this with how they disappear and reappear for the players. When the quest begins, say for example the one you gave, have a dwarf approach the players as they begin their quest. He has heard of their chivalry, and wishes to grant them a powerful family heirloom, the Axe of the Dwarvish Lords (obviously you wouldn't give this to lvl 6 guys, but you get my point).

 

[Amaroq]

Yeah, I think it would really help my ability to give you feedback about this idea if I understood better what your goal is.

1. What do you dislike about Daily powers currently?

2. What do you like about Daily powers currently?

3. Do you want to reward your players who adopt quests, or force your players to adopt quests?

4. Does your campaign tend to have one fight per extended rest, eight fights per extended rest, or somewhere in between?

 

[LostSoul]

Yeah, I think it would really help my ability to give you feedback about this idea if I understood better what your goal is.

1. What do you dislike about Daily powers currently?

2. What do you like about Daily powers currently?

3. Do you want to reward your players who adopt quests, or force your players to adopt quests?

4. Does your campaign tend to have one fight per extended rest, eight fights per extended rest, or somewhere in between?

1. I don't like the fact that powers (not just Daily powers) keep people from engaging with the game world. Look at the quote in the post here: anyway: Restating: Fictional Causes and Realization

2. Everything else.

3. Reward them, but if a player isn't choosing Quests then I'd have to say, "Are you missing out on the point of the game?" It would raise a big red flag if a player didn't pick a Quest.

4. Haven't started playing yet, but - there are going to be multiple fights between rest periods.


So the thinking is: Encounter exploits are going to trigger off a detail of the game world. I sat down with one player and he rolled up a Warlord with Leaf on the Wind; he described it as a feint, so his trigger was something along the lines of exploiting a target who has overextended himself.

I was thinking of having Daily exploits do the same thing, but Comeback Strike and Villain's Menace seem to indicate a special hatred for a specific enemy. That's what made me think of Quests - the Fighter gains resolve when fighting for something he really cares about, his Quest.

(Not all Daily exploits are going to be tied to Quests, I don't think.)

That brings up some problems, though. If a player can pick any Quest they want they can say, "I want a Quest to explore the next room", kill the goblins there, repeat for the next room, etc. I needed some way to limit the Quests players can choose while still allowing them to create their own Quests.

The solution I'm proposing is having it tied to the hex map; basically saying, "Here is a great big list of Quests you may choose from; pick any one that interests you." It seems like it would balance things out - instead of picking the very next thing you're going to use your Daily power for, you have to select it from a list; what do you want to go after?

It would reward proactive players and have them engage with the setting, which is nice.

If this works I might be able to figure out how I'm going to deal with Clerics and Paladins.

 

[SageofMusic]

I think you are thinking in too "game-y" terms. What I do with my players is have them do whatever they want. If they want to go find an airship, fine, that's cool with me. If they want to go explore the Giantsreach mountains, that's fine too. But then I always have some sort of quest that I specifically want them to go on, and keep nudging them in that direction. So if I wanted them to find out more about a specific group, I would have that group pop up a lot so that they would want to find out more about them, giving me an opportunity to put more story into it. So for your daily exploits, think of them more as what a character has trained to do, and not what they come up with in the middle of a battle. Say if you had a villain that the person really hates (the player and the player character) instead of saying "okay, now you're allowed to use that daily power" say "your hatred has spurred you on, giving you a +1 to attacks or saves or ect.". It's like it says in the DMG. You never want to say "no". There may be times when you have to do it, but try to avoid it.

 

[erf_beto]

I think I understand what you want, and if I do, I wouldn't limit this to Exploits only Essentialy, what you want may be a new kind of power: a Quest Power.

They would work like terrain powers, and are available to every PC who meets a certain pre-req (like having certain class, race, skill or power), but usable only once while pursuing the goals of specific quests. And if you want them to be powerfull, have them cost a healing surge, a magic item daily use, or even a daily power (of a minimum level equal to quest level?).

So, lets make an example. The party takes a quest to protect a forest from fire elementals. A druid (or maybe any primal character) could choose to "bond" with the spirit of the forest - that would be a quest power that gives him a barkskin-like AC boost until the end of the encounter. A ranger that grew so attatched to these woods that he elected to take this quest could "look harder" and gain a one-time bonus of +10 to his Nature or Perception checks while on a skill challenge or something. The fighter could declare the elementals as his "favored enemy" for one encounter, dealing extra damage on his daily powers.

Of course, I made these look like very personal quests. It doesn't have to be this way.

 

[Kingreaper]

I was thinking of having Daily exploits do the same thing, but Comeback Strike and Villain's Menace seem to indicate a special hatred for a specific enemy. That's what made me think of Quests - the Fighter gains resolve when fighting for something he really cares about, his Quest.

Ignore the flavour text for a second: What does comeback strike seem like?

Well, to me it seems like that scene where the hero is this close to giving up, and then he gets one hit in, and he's back on form to fight.

It's not a "this enemy is so horrible hitting them heals me" thing to me, more a "I'm not giving up 'WHACK!'" thing. If the hero is in a situation where the healing surge is valuable, then the hero is fighting a foe worthy of using the comeback strike on.


Villain's menace: You don't need to have met someone before to hate them now. This one big bad guy is smashing your friends, you're going to put an end to it. Now!

Not something you do all the time, but when someone's about to wipe out your friends, you're going to put your neck on the line to save them.

 

[LostSoul]

Hmm, good points.

It seems like what this would have players actively pursing their quests. That's cool by me. I wonder if it's worth it to change or not?

More to think about.