D&D 4E Brainstorming a "Phil. of 4e 101" resource

[AbdulAlhazred]

You can have the title! I always aim for pithy and focused but I fall down somewhere around 1000 word count!

I'll take a crack at encounter design if I can scrounge up some free time in the coming days. Pithy and focused encounter design advice that is!

Oh, I can do pithy encounter design:

Watch the first Indiana Jones movie. DO THAT. Read Keep on the Shadowfell, do NOTHING that is in there. Done.

 

[Manbearcat]

Oh, I can do pithy encounter design:

Watch the first Indiana Jones movie. DO THAT. Read Keep on the Shadowfell, do NOTHING that is in there. Done.

And the fight between Wesley and Inigo at the top of THE CLIFFS OF INSANITY and Inigo dispatching Count Reugen's men in the castle.

Basically all of The Princess Bride is 4e combat and Skill Challenges.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Honestly I don't think that many fantasy novels EVER venture into epic territory [MENTION=22362]MoutonRustique[/MENTION]. I'd say Moorcock is one of the primary exceptions, at the end of the various cycles. There are a few other things that reach that level of crazy, like some of Saberhagen's stuff maybe (Empire of the Atom with the crazy swords and whatnot).

There's some stuff in classic myths that could be epic as well, some of the labors of Hercules maybe? Chuculainn is another one that I'd call 'mythic', and you could consider some of the Finnish and Norse epics to have 'epic' elements.

I'd say most literary fantasy of whatever sorts is heroic/paragon in nature. Characters have definite fixed limits, they operate in a recognizable world with somewhat realistic limitations, etc. Often a character will be endowed with one single super fantastical aspect.

Truthfully though, RPGs and Super Hero comics are the main 'EPIC' genre.

I really do feel like the latter Wheel of Time books start hitting a certain form of "epic"--what I like to call "one-world epic" (as opposed to "planar epic"). You have major characters who either actually did live in the Age of Legends and can do all sorts of crazy she-it, or who are reincarnations of those past lives. You have people whose magic potential is quite literally 'off the charts,' and not all of it is 'I am a font of insanely enormous power,' e.g. the guy who can open portals like nobody's business but whose other magic is weak. Rand using the Choeden Kal to cleanse saidin was a first taste of Epic, as was Perrin participating in/directing the creation of Mah'alleinir. By the last book, you have people teleporting across the world regularly, vast armies of light and darkness, and an actual debate between (essentially) Magical Jesus and Fantasy Satan, in a place that is literally external to reality. It's not the "Galaxies and Godwars" style of "epic" play, but for a campaign that began by a gaggle of unlettered teenagers taking a road trip with a sorceress and her fighter friend, it seems "epic" enough to me.

As for "pithy"...

"Every adventure should leave your players terrified, elated, or amazed. Preferably all three."

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

And the fight between Wesley and Inigo at the top of THE CLIFFS OF INSANITY and Inigo dispatching Count Reugen's men in the castle.

Basically all of The Princess Bride is 4e combat and Skill Challenges.

Yes, well, a good start on a 4e movie list would be Indiana Jones (any of them really), Romancing the Stone, and Princess Bride.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I really do feel like the latter Wheel of Time books start hitting a certain form of "epic"--what I like to call "one-world epic" (as opposed to "planar epic"). You have major characters who either actually did live in the Age of Legends and can do all sorts of crazy she-it, or who are reincarnations of those past lives. You have people whose magic potential is quite literally 'off the charts,' and not all of it is 'I am a font of insanely enormous power,' e.g. the guy who can open portals like nobody's business but whose other magic is weak. Rand using the Choeden Kal to cleanse saidin was a first taste of Epic, as was Perrin participating in/directing the creation of Mah'alleinir. By the last book, you have people teleporting across the world regularly, vast armies of light and darkness, and an actual debate between (essentially) Magical Jesus and Fantasy Satan, in a place that is literally external to reality. It's not the "Galaxies and Godwars" style of "epic" play, but for a campaign that began by a gaggle of unlettered teenagers taking a road trip with a sorceress and her fighter friend, it seems "epic" enough to me.

As for "pithy"...

"Every adventure should leave your players terrified, elated, or amazed. Preferably all three."

I have to profess total ignorance of the whole series. I barely have enough time to run/play a few games, let alone read lots of fantasy. Not that I wouldn't LIKE to sit back and read a whole lot of that stuff.

 

[MoutonRustique]

...Truthfully though, RPGs and Super Hero comics are the main 'EPIC' genre.

Yeah, the better examples are probably from video games and comics.

Comics also offer something most genres do not : lack of progression. Most characters have the "power level" they have and that's pretty much it. (A few "grow" into their power, but the vast majority are pretty defined.) We could go another angle and use characters to help define the tiers :

Wolverine/Batman - Heroic
Dr Doom/Magneto - Paragon
Pheonix/Thanos/Warlock - Epic

My ideal list would probably be something along the lines of :

Tier : 3 movies, 3 books, 3 characters

This way, you really offer a range of touch-points. A big problem of lists like these is often the fact that the user doesn't know the references - or just has a basic understanding of them.
Case in point : I've not read Moorcock - I tried a few times, but the style of prose just doesn't work for me. And there are so many books I want to read, I'm not going to spend my time on something that's unpleasant. Plus, I'm passed the phase where I felt that I was missing out by not having read X, Y or Z. I'm an adult now, I'm not as easily swayed by peer-pressure.

 

[MoutonRustique]

Yes, well, a good start on a 4e movie list would be Indiana Jones (any of them really), Romancing the Stone, and Princess Bride.

Really?

...

REALLY?

We're going to suggest Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull ? REALLY?

I think not!



Felt snarky, nothing more to add - move along.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Really?

...

REALLY?

We're going to suggest Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull ? REALLY?

I think not!



Felt snarky, nothing more to add - move along.

Actually I never saw the Crystal Skull one, but I hear its pretty bad. Still, it sounds pretty much like highly fantastic action adventure. So there are probably MANY bad fantasy movies out there that still exemplify in some sense crazy action adventure. There's also 1000 really good ones. Just start with any movie that had Ray Harryhausen effects (yeah, I'm sure you'll find the exception, but there's a huge list of really good ones).

 

[MoutonRustique]

Actually I never saw the Crystal Skull one, but I hear its pretty bad. Still, it sounds pretty much like highly fantastic action adventure. So there are probably MANY bad fantasy movies out there that still exemplify in some sense crazy action adventure. There's also 1000 really good ones. Just start with any movie that had Ray Harryhausen effects (yeah, I'm sure you'll find the exception, but there's a huge list of really good ones).

I'm going to utter what is tantamount with blasphemy... It's not that it's THAT BAD. It is very bad - make no mistake. But it suffers from comparison with the others. If you haven't seen it, I'd not watch it. Like all poor franchise performances, it eats a little bit at the whole... (~midichlorians)

I'd not heard of Ray Harryhausen - I'll check that out, thanks!

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I'm going to utter what is tantamount with blasphemy... It's not that it's THAT BAD. It is very bad - make no mistake. But it suffers from comparison with the others. If you haven't seen it, I'd not watch it. Like all poor franchise performances, it eats a little bit at the whole... (~midichlorians)

I'd not heard of Ray Harryhausen - I'll check that out, thanks!

Mighty Joe Young, The 7th Voyage of Sinbad, Jason and the Argonauts, and of course Clash of the Titans. All quite thrilling action adventure stuff. Dynamation seems a little antiquated today of course, in this day of CGI, but those movies still stand up pretty well.