D&D 5E Brainstorming about Interparty Conflict

[BoldItalic]

...
Also, where's the bloody DM in this story? Is he/she just sitting back and enjoying all this intraparty conflict? Cos this doesn't sound that fun!

It's evidently fun for this DM.

In-character, I would walk away from the party. Out-of-character I would walk away from the game. But that doesn't suit the OP.

 

[Shiroiken]

I'm not going to advise you what to do as a Player, as far as the game goes, because each person has to decide for themselves if the game is worth playing. I have some advice for you for your Character, however, should you continue.

The Ranger and Paladin are obviously not worthy of your divine magic, and it would be an insult to your god to do so. You should NEVER provide them magical aid again. This means no Healing, no Restoration, no Resurrection, no Buff Spells, Nothing. If you drop an AoE spell, ignore them for purposes of placement (they are not your allies). If they have a problem with this, too bad, because you follow the precepts of your god, whom they defy. This may push things to a head (i.e. combat), but it keeps you from being a pushover.

As for the vampire slave, both are evil. Slavery is bad, but so is vampirism. Unless you can find a way to cure her (which would be for the DM to decide), you should destroy her. I would wait until the party is asleep, then attempt to destroy her (she may even be willing, if she never intended to become a vampire).

I would talk to the rest of the party, and see if any of them are willing to take charge and work as a mediator. If both you and they are willing to listen to the mediator, then you can continue to work as a group. They won't listen to you (and you probably won't listen to them), so the third party is going to have to make the final decisions. Otherwise, I would see if you can get any allies from the rest of the party. They may not aid you immediately, but any assistance they give you when the eventual combat begins will be invaluable. And yes, I think another battle is inevitable, as long as the characters are together.

 

[BoldItalic]

Before the showdown comes, think out your tactics. Aim to take control. No more Mr. Nice Guy. For example:

Suddenly announce out of the blue that evil cannot be tolerated and start buffing yourself. Let the other players assume that you are about to attack the paladin. When you are ready, do the unexpected and kill the evil ranger. Don't hold back, go in all spells blazing and go for the kill. Don't let the others stop you. Keep hitting until the ranger has failed all three death saves. This is for real.

Then heal yourself up, calmly look the paladin in the eye and say, quietly and matter-of-factly: "You're next."

Your deity will be proud of you.

 

[Chaosmancer]

No, no, don't stop healing the paladin; stop healing *anyone*.

The rest of the party didn't stop the paladin slaver or the werewolf murderer, so they are complicit. If they are willing to take a stand with you against the evil then they can once again get the blessings of your god. If not, then they don't.

This is a bit more extreme than I think he would be comfortable with. To be fair, here's the rest of the party.

Tiefling Assassin (Who has been the guy breaking up the fights and trying to talk reasonable middle road to us)

Human Druid [used to be a fighter] (Is becoming more aware of good and evil [roleplaying a confused 16 yr old kid very well] who used to see the Paladin as her Big Sister and protector, but as the Paladin has been descending has become more and more scared of her)

Orc Barbarian/Wizard (whose mostly been rping confused and wanting to stay out of it)

So the rest of the party is for the most part, caught in a very awkward position. I think they agree with my character (and my character has no problem with how they've reacted) but they are seeing two friends and traveling companions trying to kill each other, and they don't know how to keep the peace.

I don't know if my relatively peaceful doctor would be comfortable withholding healing from people for what is at worst agonizing neutrality. That'd feel despicable I think, to hold his resources ransom if they do not agree with him.

Yeah, I would have your gnome leave the party.

Then make a chaotic evil character and show them what true evil is!

Also, where's the bloody DM in this story? Is he/she just sitting back and enjoying all this intraparty conflict? Cos this doesn't sound that fun!

It's evidently fun for this DM.

In-character, I would walk away from the party. Out-of-character I would walk away from the game. But that doesn't suit the OP.

I'll repeat, we are still having a degree of fun with this. I was grinning the whole time while arguing about the morality of this act with the Paladin. The issue is, I'm running out of ideas to prevent this from devolving to the point where we need to roll new characters, that's why I'm trying to brainstorm solutions my character can have in his back pocket for next session.

I do have a few ideas for a new character if I had to make one though.

I'm not going to advise you what to do as a Player, as far as the game goes, because each person has to decide for themselves if the game is worth playing. I have some advice for you for your Character, however, should you continue.

The Ranger and Paladin are obviously not worthy of your divine magic, and it would be an insult to your god to do so. You should NEVER provide them magical aid again. This means no Healing, no Restoration, no Resurrection, no Buff Spells, Nothing. If you drop an AoE spell, ignore them for purposes of placement (they are not your allies). If they have a problem with this, too bad, because you follow the precepts of your god, whom they defy. This may push things to a head (i.e. combat), but it keeps you from being a pushover.

As for the vampire slave, both are evil. Slavery is bad, but so is vampirism. Unless you can find a way to cure her (which would be for the DM to decide), you should destroy her. I would wait until the party is asleep, then attempt to destroy her (she may even be willing, if she never intended to become a vampire).

I would talk to the rest of the party, and see if any of them are willing to take charge and work as a mediator. If both you and they are willing to listen to the mediator, then you can continue to work as a group. They won't listen to you (and you probably won't listen to them), so the third party is going to have to make the final decisions. Otherwise, I would see if you can get any allies from the rest of the party. They may not aid you immediately, but any assistance they give you when the eventual combat begins will be invaluable. And yes, I think another battle is inevitable, as long as the characters are together.

We all have Bags of Holding, which is where I imagine she'll keep the vampire when she isn't using her services, to prevent daylight immolation.

And I did talk to the DM (I critted vampire knowledge) and he said the only way to reverse vampirism is to kill them then raise them, which leads back to the problem of needing to kill them first. I also can't use Dispel Magic to counter their Channel Divinity effect. That's what started me thinking about posting this thread, is I figure there has to be something I hadn't thought of or seen on the magic front.

There, just last night, has been talk of trying to set up a conflict resolution thing within the party, like a coin flip, to prevent this from going to a physical fight, and mediators is where I'm leaning. But, will that prevent a fight or merely divide the party further?

Before the showdown comes, think out your tactics. Aim to take control. No more Mr. Nice Guy. For example:

Suddenly announce out of the blue that evil cannot be tolerated and start buffing yourself. Let the other players assume that you are about to attack the paladin. When you are ready, do the unexpected and kill the evil ranger. Don't hold back, go in all spells blazing and go for the kill. Don't let the others stop you. Keep hitting until the ranger has failed all three death saves. This is for real.

Then heal yourself up, calmly look the paladin in the eye and say, quietly and matter-of-factly: "You're next."

Your deity will be proud of you.

The party will descend on me before the ranger falls, especially if I instigate a fight with no provocation. I'd be slaughtered quickly and have to fight the whole party.

Also... The gnomish dieties are more about harmony and community than smiting evil in the face... So I don't know if they'd be proud of a sudden unprovoked kill.

If it does come to a fight, I won't hold back til they drop, but landing that finishing blow... I don't know if he could do it. Not yet.




And thank you guys for all this, it's definitely helping me work through the problems and re-analyze the situation.

 

[Aenghus]

It sounds like you are no longer happy with the intraparty conflict because it lacks any sort of safety net. It does sound like a blowup is on the cards unless something is done to prevent it.

In most games I've been in the DM would have stepped in long before and laid down some sorts of limits on what can happen, with a view to keeping the game fun for all involved.

One option is an out of character discussion to state your own points of view as players and suggest options that allow all the characters to stay in play if their players so desire. If some of the players are heavily into RPing everything out, as it sounds, there might be problems getting everyone onboard. There's no guarantee that a compromise will be arrived at, but being able to express opinions and frustrations our of character can definitely help.

A second option is that your PC is quested to accompany and aid the rest of the party regardless of their problematic nature. I'm envisioning this would be a genuine quest from the gnome pantheon, possibly including one of the trickster deities, as gnomes have to fight lots of creatures larger than themselves, which means avoiding fair fights and using trickery and illusion. The DM would have to cooperate on this one, but that's going to be the case for any solution, and constant refusals of anything to help you keep your character will make your situation clear. Ideally the questgiver would also prophesy that your character was essential to the party, and would be needed to fulfill their destiny.

A nasty one which I don't recommend would be connecting the life forces of your PC and the paladin, so that if one dies the other dies.

Achieving a coherent party with lots of built in conflict often requires some level of coercion or plot device.

 

[tglassy]

The main problem is (in character) the Paladin and Ranger don't respect your Cleric. They view him as weak. They're picking on him. They take enjoyment at picking on him. It's in their nature. The Cleric needs them to respect him, to see him as an equal. Maybe even an ally.

A bond needs to be created between them. Some reason for the other two to see him as more than just a goody goody cleric. It needs to be a big event that changes their perspective of the Cleric.

They don't have to agree with his morals. My closest friends and I disagree vehemently on some moral grounds, but we still respect each other. They don't have to agree with him, but they do need to respect him, and right now, they just...don't.

And it really depends on what they respect. Power? Money? Awesomeness? What would make them look at the Cleric and say "I was wrong about him."

Why are they the way they are? Is the murderer a murderer for a reason, or is he just a dick? And the Paladin? Why does he hate everything? Figure that out, and then have the Cleric do something that they respect.

Or how about this. I had a friend who was playing a half drow a while back with a group, and he and another character just didn't get along. He was a half drow, constantly beaten by his mother when he was a child. I can't remember the other guy's story. At one point, the other guy's character had his shirt off, and everyone noticed some scars on his back. One of the other characters asked about it, and he said "Let's just say I have mommy issues."

To which the half-drow said "You too?"

Instantly, their characters bonded, and their aggression between each other vaporized. Because they now understood each other.

Perhaps hash out some kind of interaction like that, or figure out another way to earn their respect.

 

[Not a Hobbit]

I would have my character leave the party. Tell them that he cannot abide their behavior, and since the impass could not be settled without bloodshed, I will leave and go my own way. I would then turn to the two "neutral" characters and tell them that they are welcome to join me. If they do, then make the paladin and ranger characters be the ones who have to roll new characters.

But, yeah, OOC, I would tell the group that this isn't very fun for me and to call me when they're ready to start a new game where the characters are working together towards a common purpose. But that's just me.

--Scott

 

[Chaosmancer]

Why are they the way they are? Is the murderer a murderer for a reason, or is he just a dick? And the Paladin? Why does he hate everything? Figure that out, and then have the Cleric do something that they respect.

The frustrating thing with this is that I do know, from a metagame post about his character's backstory. But she never talks about herself and keeps everything locked inside, so there is no reasonable way Warren would know what I know....

Unless the DM okays the thought I just had about using Legend Lore to find out....


As to the respect angle, I agree, but I've no clue what else my character could do that wouldn't be out of character. I've held my own in plenty of fights, don't have a lot of money, but that's because I buy supplies constantly. And confronting them doesn't seem to get it done (though maybe it will get the Ranger off my back, we haven't had a session together since that event because he was ill)

 

[transtemporal]

I'll repeat, we are still having a degree of fun with this. I was grinning the whole time while arguing about the morality of this act with the Paladin. The issue is, I'm running out of ideas to prevent this from devolving to the point where we need to roll new characters, that's why I'm trying to brainstorm solutions my character can have in his back pocket for next session.

As long as it's still fun I guess. I imagine in situations like this it's common for clerics to ask their deities for guidance. What do the gods have to say? What do they intend for you to do in the face of this crazy paladin?

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

If the DM is saying that's the only way, and that's something your character isn't willing to do, then curing the vampire isn't going to be on the table. I kinda disagree with that call, but it's not my campaign to run. To quote a player at my table last session: "Not my plan. Not my dragon."

And if the paladin is never going to decide to release them, that takes the other solution out of it as well. I fear only more conflict would come of pushing the issue with the PC.

My kudos to everyone involved for keeping the conflict in-game so far, and recognizing role-playing as role-playing. But I agree with the other that this sort of campaign is only a few inches away from a blow-up and entering the no-fun zone.

For my part, I think a player can come up with whatever character they want, and a group can consist of a variety of different characters. But the one rule is that they've got to be able to work together. Not just by DM fiat, but the PCs have to be willing to actively work to resolve any conflicts between each other. Conflict now and then is fine, but I think sustained conflict will only damage the campaign and possibly the gaming group itself. And when we get to attack rolls against each other, that can be a serious problem.

But to get back to your question of how to handle this situation... one thing you could try to have an in-character discussion between everyone, talking about how the group needs to stick together to fulfill this prophecy. Talk about goals, and what everyone is trying to accomplish, and how it all ties together. Maybe talk about how this constant feuding only weakens your chances of being ready for this grand fate. Even evil characters should be able to recognize that divided you will be that much more likely to fall.

You could also talk it over with the DM, saying how you're kinda painted into a corner with this situation, and could really use some help in resolving it without escalating to more combat and further conflict. The weight of resolution shouldn't stand on the DM alone, but they should be invested in the game enough to try to prevent worse things from happening.

And I did talk to the DM (I critted vampire knowledge) and he said the only way to reverse vampirism is to kill them then raise them, which leads back to the problem of needing to kill them first.