D&D 5E Brainstorming about Interparty Conflict

[Corwin]

The frustrating thing with this is that I do know, from a metagame post about his character's backstory. But she never talks about herself and keeps everything locked inside, so there is no reasonable way Warren would know what I know....

Why must your cleric PC know something IC before you can just decide to do something cool that would create fun and interesting interactions with the other characters? Just have your cleric do it for internal reasons. Or serendipitously. Not because he *IC* is trying to manipulate an outcome. Just have it happen naturally. Better that way anyway. After all, if your cleric *did* know IC something personal about the other PC(s), and initiated interaction to leverage that information in the hopes of garnering a deeper connection or respect, well... that's all kinds of honked up manipulation. Like textbook narcissistic behavior. You don't want to project that. You want to keep it narratively pure.

Like in @tglassy's example. It was a bonding moment. It wasn't manipulated to happen on a character level. But one player had to have his character inadvertently reveal their scars for the other PC to see and find connection with.

 

[Shiroiken]

We all have Bags of Holding, which is where I imagine she'll keep the vampire when she isn't using her services, to prevent daylight immolation.

Take a dagger to the bag while he sleeps. This will destroy the bag and scatter the contents (including the vampire) across the Astral Plane. Offer him yours as a replacement. Warning: this is almost certainly going to start a fight, and should probably be used as a last resort.

And I did talk to the DM (I critted vampire knowledge) and he said the only way to reverse vampirism is to kill them then raise them, which leads back to the problem of needing to kill them first. I also can't use Dispel Magic to counter their Channel Divinity effect. That's what started me thinking about posting this thread, is I figure there has to be something I hadn't thought of or seen on the magic front.

Remind the Paladin that he needs to use Channel Divinity every day, and eventually the Vampire will succeed on the Save. When she does, she's free to kick his [expletive], and you won't help him against her. Make sure you do this in front of the DM, so that he remembers Control Undead only lasts 24 Hours or until you use Control Undead again.

There, just last night, has been talk of trying to set up a conflict resolution thing within the party, like a coin flip, to prevent this from going to a physical fight, and mediators is where I'm leaning. But, will that prevent a fight or merely divide the party further?

If they haven't chosen sides yet, and it looks like they've had plenty of time, they'll likely remain neutral. A neutral Arbiter, who's looking out for the interest of the party as a whole, not individuals, is going to have the best chance of success. Of course, if the Arbiter goes against the other characters and that leads to more problems, you probably have player issues (someone needs to leave or the game will almost certainly collapse).

And thank you guys for all this, it's definitely helping me work through the problems and re-analyze the situation.

No problem. Giving advice is probably the only real beneficial use of these forums

 

[Jago]

The fact that you're still playing this game after your PC and 2 different PCs have come to physical blows multiple times is literally astounding to me.

 

[Chaosmancer]

As long as it's still fun I guess. I imagine in situations like this it's common for clerics to ask their deities for guidance. What do the gods have to say? What do they intend for you to do in the face of this crazy paladin?

Might get that answer next session. The current plan, without the backup plans I’m developing, is for my character to head for the Temple for the day.

He’ll talk it out with a priest, pray, get his head on straight so he is less confused and off balance when confronting them. Meanwhile, before he left, he told the party that he wants to hear what they decide to do, if we support the Paladin’s actions as a group or if we reject them.

What to do when that all goes southward fast is the subject of current back-up plan planning.

Why must your cleric PC know something IC before you can just decide to do something cool that would create fun and interesting interactions with the other characters? Just have your cleric do it for internal reasons. Or serendipitously. Not because he *IC* is trying to manipulate an outcome. Just have it happen naturally. Better that way anyway. After all, if your cleric *did* know IC something personal about the other PC(s), and initiated interaction to leverage that information in the hopes of garnering a deeper connection or respect, well... that's all kinds of honked up manipulation. Like textbook narcissistic behavior. You don't want to project that. You want to keep it narratively pure.

Like in @tglassy's example. It was a bonding moment. It wasn't manipulated to happen on a character level. But one player had to have his character inadvertently reveal their scars for the other PC to see and find connection with.

Part of it is my own preference. I normally DM, so I have to keep a tight lid on my metagame knowledge, so I try very hard for my characters to not act based on information I have that they don’t. Doing it by “accident” seems a little transparent to myself.

Also, going off memory, her backstory involves being abandoned by her celestial father (I think the mother died in childbirth), and later talking to a demon about it and getting twisted around. Now, I don’t want to use the twisting part, but Gnomes are community creatures. My cleric has always had family nearby to guide him, to support him. If he knew that she had actually never had that, he would be able to sympathize more. Instead of looking at her and wondering why she is so angry and closed off, he’d have an understanding, and once he had that understanding, he’d be able to handle her actions differently on a mental level.

Essentially, she would make more sense to him, which would help him deal with her.
I don’t think there is currently any narrative hope of her respecting anyone. She’s got no qualms of catching us in the crossfire for fear effects or any number of things. She is completely closed off. Breaking that door is the first step. It literally took us months to get her to reveal she had angel wings underneath her massive cloak after all.

Remind the Paladin that he needs to use Channel Divinity every day, and eventually the Vampire will succeed on the Save. When she does, she's free to kick his [expletive], and you won't help him against her. Make sure you do this in front of the DM, so that he remembers Control Undead only lasts 24 Hours or until you use Control Undead again.

If they haven't chosen sides yet, and it looks like they've had plenty of time, they'll likely remain neutral. A neutral Arbiter, who's looking out for the interest of the party as a whole, not individuals, is going to have the best chance of success. Of course, if the Arbiter goes against the other characters and that leads to more problems, you probably have player issues (someone needs to leave or the game will almost certainly collapse).


No problem. Giving advice is probably the only real beneficial use of these forums

Aware of the Channel Divinity. One potential back-up plan is to cast bless on the vampire to help it succeed on the save (she has a DC 18 after all), but then leading to the release of a vampire into a populated city gets added to my character’s list of evil crimes that prove I’m secretly an evil character.

The fact that you're still playing this game after your PC and 2 different PCs have come to physical blows multiple times is literally astounding to me.

It is a bit strange for me too. What’s even weirder is that I’ve only known these guys since about… June? So we’ve barely played together for 4 months, but most of them have been playing together for longer than that, I was the new guy.

 

[BoldItalic]

...
It is a bit strange for me too. What’s even weirder is that I’ve only known these guys since about… June? So we’ve barely played together for 4 months, but most of them have been playing together for longer than that, I was the new guy.

I think this accounts for a lot of the apparently irrational animosity your character is experiencing in game. Some of the other players are projecting into the game, disrespect of you as a player.

Walk away.

 

[Lucas Blackstone]

If this was my character, I would take them out when they were sleeping. It's a matter of serving the greater good. They have proven they are foul beings, and if your character walks away from the party, it's the same as letting any other evil beings roam to spread evil.

This sounds like a drastic response, and is, but they have tried to cause serious harm to your character on multiple occasions and I feel the need to point out again, are pretty evil. Are their characters joking about your character being evil, or are they being serious? These are things that any good religious character could, and in my opinion should, take serious offense to and weighs into the aforementioned response. The same goes for the destroying of the gnomish deity altars.

I would also okay it by the DM first, but they seem fine with interparty conflict. If the DM feels it is inappropriate then I would have the character leave and then create a new character who was neutral or evil so that adventuring with the party with be more reasonable.

 

[Chaosmancer]

I think this accounts for a lot of the apparently irrational animosity your character is experiencing in game. Some of the other players are projecting into the game, disrespect of you as a player.

Walk away.

That isn't the sense I get at all. Not even slightly.

Whenever we aren't speaking in-game, I've never felt they didn't like me, it is simply a conflict between characters.

And I find it odd, before I mentioned I was the new guy, no one had mentioned they had no respect for me as a player.

Also, I am friends with the DM, who joined the same time I did because they were looking for a DM and they found him online, and he invited me with their okay.

If this was my character, I would take them out when they were sleeping. It's a matter of serving the greater good. They have proven they are foul beings, and if your character walks away from the party, it's the same as letting any other evil beings roam to spread evil.

This sounds like a drastic response, and is, but they have tried to cause serious harm to your character on multiple occasions and I feel the need to point out again, are pretty evil. Are their characters joking about your character being evil, or are they being serious? These are things that any good religious character could, and in my opinion should, take serious offense to and weighs into the aforementioned response. The same goes for the destroying of the gnomish deity altars.

I would also okay it by the DM first, but they seem fine with interparty conflict. If the DM feels it is inappropriate then I would have the character leave and then create a new character who was neutral or evil so that adventuring with the party with be more reasonable.

It started out being a joke, I was told, that got started when I had to miss a couple games.

Since then though, the Ranger has really taken up that call and seems to take it very seriously. And... it confuses my character more than offends him. He's doing good, so how can they call it either, and when he confronts them, they give compelling arguments at least part of the time, so then he wonders if he is correct, perhaps they are right, which has led to the confusion of my character at this time.

The altars were a huge deal, but so sudden and vicious that my character just froze. He couldn't process what was happening for a moment.


And Warren is a straightforward type of person. He wouldn't slit someone's throat in the night, he'd confront them head on, even if it meant dying.

And I do have a few other characters waiting in the wings if I need them, but even the Paladin player has said they don't want my character to die or leave the party, because they enjoy having them as a foil to their own character. Breaking up the party either by murdering other party members or having the cleric walk away is my nuke option, and I don't think it has come to that just yet.

 

[Aenghus]

And I do have a few other characters waiting in the wings if I need them, but even the Paladin player has said they don't want my character to die or leave the party, because they enjoy having them as a foil to their own character. Breaking up the party either by murdering other party members or having the cleric walk away is my nuke option, and I don't think it has come to that just yet.

It does sound like your PC is been treated like a doormat, and lacks a legitimate way of resisting the opposing narrative in a way that doesn't blow up the game. You need a way of pushing back that's safe, or at the very least pushes the ball back into their court so they're the ones that have to scramble to keep the game going without terminal blowups. I don't know what that is, but putting party cohesion all on one player or PC is unfair, the workload has to be spread around and other players/PCs have to be willing to compromise their actions for the greater good to some extent. IMO of course.

 

[Chaosmancer]

It does sound like your PC is been treated like a doormat, and lacks a legitimate way of resisting the opposing narrative in a way that doesn't blow up the game. You need a way of pushing back that's safe, or at the very least pushes the ball back into their court so they're the ones that have to scramble to keep the game going without terminal blowups. I don't know what that is, but putting party cohesion all on one player or PC is unfair, the workload has to be spread around and other players/PCs have to be willing to compromise their actions for the greater good to some extent. IMO of course.

I agree, and I think I'll see just how alone Warren really is when we get together again.

One thing I wonder, the other characters probably do not agree with the paladin's tactics either, but from personal connections or general neutrality they might not have had the wall to be pushed back against.

My Cleric has lines he has drawn in the sand, there are places he does not wish to go, where a neutral party member may be more willing to be pushed back and compromised even if they disapprove of the actions. If I'm lucky, my actions will lead to a coalition of the rest of the party behind me, which will help balance the field.

 

[Chaosmancer]

So, I don't know if anyone was waiting to find out what happened but.... well.

We started back in the dream dungeon, so my cleric agreed to remain in the room he was in (with the other vampire spawn) while the assassin went looking for the paladin.

Ran into the ranger (who was recovered from his pneumonia and could rejoin us) who quickly ran into trouble by drinking from a magic pool and getting petrified. So the Assassin drags him back to me, I was low on spells so I'd have to cure him later. I had found out though that these spawn are an experiment. They've been bonded and if they are seperated for too long one will die and the other will change. I assumed full vampirism.

I promised I'd do everything to help him and we all set off dashing through the dungeon looking for the paladin, before it was too late. We find her, and the arguments begin. I had communed with my gods (thank you for ritual casting) and had learned that this beings had their souls still, the paladin called my gods liars because her powers only work on undead and all undead are souless, to which we almost had violence yet again. Finally the paladin said that if we couldn't take one of these soulless automatons with us, we'd just kill them both. To which my cleric agreed, because to cure them of vampirism they first needed slain then revived. Needed to take a long rest to let the Deathward I cast on the male to run out, and the paladin refused to let him place his arm around his bonded, essentially refusing to allow them to express there fear and worry, she of course was completely robot, because mind control slavery.

During this time the big bombshell dropped, our druid still feels like the paladin is her family, and so she tried to talk reason into her and apologize yet again for an incident during the werewolf night where she threw a dagger at her and pushed her back (she was a battlemaster at that time, rp caused complete class switch). She said no need to apologize, she wanted to thank her, her betrayal had killed a part of her, the human part that wanted friends, family, and all that, now she was finally who she wanted to be.

Of course, telling this to a 16 year old girl, who is essentially a hippy now and considers herself the paladin's family... we were all stunned (out of game, because only those two heard the conversation) especially the player of the druid, who now is very upset because she might have to retire her character, because that quite literally destroyed her character's entire world.

We went to execute the vampires, and the male moved at the last second to avoid the blow, transform, and go full bore after the paladin. The ranger helped her, but myself and the rogue just waited, because we knew exactly where he was coming from. This *insert expletive* had stolen the mind and soul of his bond mate, refused to allow them event he semblance of time together, and then mocked and rejoiced over the act of killing them. He was in the right. Once he fell my cleric cast revivify on both of them (DM allowed my to revivify 2 people at once as a 5th slot, with the understanding that it was simply for story moments like this) and then we had a stare off about whether anyone was going to continue fighting.

This is about when the male started going nuts, turns out he had a magic gem embedded in his neck, and after trying multiple spells, my cleric who is a doctor ended up attempting open throat surgery on a thrashing person. I wasn't rolling well, when a mysterious voice asked if I wanted help. I agreed, because I had promised this man that we would help them and make this all right, that I would do everything to help them, and I was failing.

So, I think I made a deal with a literal Devil, there was a vision as we left the dungeon, and now the Druid is going to leave the party because the Paladin is completely a sociopathic monster. And I still haven't confronted the ranger over our issues.