Branimir's Open Letter to Games Workshop

[Jd Smith1]

Because it makes racism and misogyny look popular among the fans of the game when people go to look it up.

But if they are as described: popular, then that is the truth.

If a lot of them understand it's racist/sexist BS and still like it... isn't that worse?

Worse than what? Free speech? Opinions? Badwrong fun? Communist infiltration? Skim milk?

 

[Cadence]

Worse than what? Free speech? Opinions? Badwrong fun? Communist infiltration? Skim milk?

Worse to be embracing things in spite of recognizing them as racist/sexist BS, than to have embraced them without recognizing that it was racist/sexist.

 

[macd21]

But if they are as described: popular, then that is the truth.

Not at all. Someone can be a popular youtuber and still attract only a tiny fraction of the game's fanbase. But due to their vocal presence, make it seem like their views are far more prevalent than they really are. GW don't want to be associated with that toxic element of their customers. Maybe it's just because they think it would be bad for business, or maybe it's because they really don't like racist, mysoginist naughty words, but either way they decided to let them know that they're not wanted, and won't be missed.

 

[MGibster]

If they're popular, what's the problem?

I think the problem is that some of these folks like to mock people of color and women when they're represented in any of GW's product lines. And if you were a person new to the hobby, it's very easy to see these popular people with these opinions and think they're echoing not just the company's belief but that of the player base as well.

I get tired of this holier than thou, censorship bent that is so popular these days. It assumes that the average person is too stupid to understand BS when he or she hears it.

Nobody's being censored here.

 

[Gradine]

I have long felt left out of the Warhammer brand because the culture seems skewed towards open misogyny and homophobia and tacit acceptance of that bigotry. Games Workshop's statement distancing themselves from those toxic elements in the hobby goes a long way towards making someone like me feel more welcome within the game.

 

[Bacon Bits]

But people can disagree with part of a statement, or with a certain method, while still condoning prejudice. I'm not going to derail this thread by bringing the BLM and Oriental Adventures debates into this. Suffice to say that I see these debates a bit differently because I don't live in the US.

I find a significant difference between the Oriental Adventures debate, which I would say is fueled by a modern view of an out-of-date, out-of-print book that was written by it's authors -- with genuinely no disrespect or offense intended -- to be a fun addition to a game largely based in contemporary pop culture media references, and a community where outright bigotry, racism, sexism, prejudice, and other toxic behaviors are ongoing and affecting new and veteran community members alike. There's a massive difference between unintentional disrespect in a fixed, static, historic work, and ongoing toxicity in an active community.

While one might lament the loss of the liberty of topics one might enjoy without a code of conduct restricting what's acceptable, it's more important to the health of a community to moderate it because there are always going to be people who are extraordinarily toxic that will be attracted to any community that doesn't expel them for their bad behavior. That's sad, but that's reality.

If you're really interested in seeing what happens to communities that support unrestrained, unmoderated conduct, I suggest checking out Voat or 4chan. Thought I certainly recommend against doing so.

 

[Jd Smith1]

Worse to be embracing things in spite of recognizing them as racist/sexist BS, than to have embraced them without recognizing that it was racist/sexist.

So you think that people are too stupid to recognize things without your guidance?

 

[Jd Smith1]

I think the problem is that some of these folks like to mock people of color and women when they're represented in any of GW's product lines. And if you were a person new to the hobby, it's very easy to see these popular people with these opinions and think they're echoing not just the company's belief but that of the player base as well.

So you believe that people are not capable of figuring things out on their own? That they must be protected from badwrong thoughts?

Seems elitist at best.

The practical effect of this sort of thing would seem to be to focus attention upon those exact voices that GW seems to silence. Much in the same way people often check out negative reviews on Steam or Amazon in order to get a broader picture.

 

[Cadence]

So you think that people are too stupid to recognize things without your guidance?

I don't expect that any of us will always recognize when things are really offensive to others. The implications of embracing things that revel in offensiveness seem very different when judging between one knows it's greatly offensive and one that doesn't.

 

[Jd Smith1]

I don't expect that any of us will always recognize when things are really offensive to others. The implications of embracing things that revel in offensiveness seem very different when judging between one knows it's greatly offensive and one that doesn't.

Nope. It is elitism at best, and more likely something very much worse.