Branimir's Open Letter to Games Workshop

[Neonchameleon]

If warhammer was smart, they would dropped the last line. I don't play war hammer and the last line sound like they want to start a fight.

On the contrary. If they didn't include the last line it would be seen as empty rhetoric that was just saying things to say them - and "You will not be missed" has been used for Warhammer as a sign-off certainly since the introduction to 40k Rogue Trader back in the late 80s "But the universe is a big place and, whatever happens, you will not be missed . . . ." being the final paragraph.

 

[S'mon]

It's Karl Popper's paradox of tolerance. The argument "if you don't tolerate intolerant people, you are not tolerant!" is hardly a new one.

Paradox of tolerance - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Popper of course said to tolerate intolerant words, but not to tolerate intolerant acts. So, if you agree with Popper then you tolerate intolerant speech, but you punish attempts to stop others from speaking (or to drown them out, eg by spam-posting).

 

[Neonchameleon]

Popper of course said to tolerate intolerant words, but not to tolerate intolerant acts. So, if you agree with Popper then you tolerate intolerant speech, but you punish attempts to stop others from speaking (or to drown them out, eg by spam-posting).

But spam-posting is neither more nor less than words, and not even particularly intolerant ones. This is one of the many places where any attempt to draw a clear distinction between words and other forms of act pretty obviously falls apart. Advocacy is action, period. Not the strongest type of action - but action all the same simply because you've thought it important enough to open your mouth or put pen to paper (or fingers to keyboard) and others have to pay attention or actively not pay attention.

 

[Umbran]

Popper of course said to tolerate intolerant words, but not to tolerate intolerant acts.

Verbal abuse is an action. Making people feel unsafe or unwelcome is an action.

 

[S'mon]

Verbal abuse is an action. Making people feel unsafe or unwelcome is an action.

Well the distinction he drew was between speech (should be allowed) and preventing speech (should not be allowed). I'm not necessarily advocating Popperian tolerance as a guide to message board moderation, BTW. It might have some relevance to regulation of near-monopolies like Facebook & Twitter.

"I'll kill/harm you if you keep talking" is the kind of speech Popper would want stamped out, as I understand it. That would come under 'making people feel unsafe'.
"Republicans have small weiners" is the kind of abusive speech Popper would want tolerated - that does not mean any message board is morally obliged to allow it.

 

[wingsandsword]

Games Workshop definitely has a certain toxic wing to its fandom.

There's a certain part of society that basically idolizes the Imperium of Mankind. . .they look at them and think THAT's what they want things to be like.

Vehemently anti-science, xenophobic, authoritarian, religiously fundamentalist, absurdly militaristic, lead by a cult of personality. . .they're a fascist's dream.

I do wonder how many people get involved with WH40K because the Imperium and its mindset has become something of a memetic thing in some corners of the internet.

 

[MGibster]

If warhammer was smart, they would dropped the last line. I don't play war hammer and the last line sound like they want to start a fight.

I agree. Apparently it's a call back to the forward of some of their books where they establish that the universe is terribly dangerous and should you perish "you will not be missed." On one hand I always think it's cool when they throw in tidbits like this for long term fans. On the other hand, it's very easy for fans to miss what they were references.

I do wish they would have closed it with "You will be missed." It makes it sound like the bigots are excluding themselves rather than GW excluding them and I think that's important in a message about inclusion. But, still, overall I think it was a good message.

 

[Eltab]

If warhammer was smart, they would dropped the last line. I don't play war hammer and the last line sound like they want to start a fight.

And if Warhammer was clever, there would have been a sort-of-in-universe announcement along the lines of "The Emperor commands the allegiance of all Mankind, not merely a portion thereof. Coming soon to a shop near you, the pieces to make your force world-wide." This to announce new mini lines for whatever people-groups they do not have now.

 

[Retreater]

And if Warhammer was clever, there would have been a sort-of-in-universe announcement along the lines of "The Emperor commands the allegiance of all Mankind, not merely a portion thereof. Coming soon to a shop near you, the pieces to make your force world-wide." This to announce new mini lines for whatever people-groups they do not have now.

Yes! Like if they put it in the rules where you get extra Command Points if you are inclusive and treat people with respect, those players would jump all over the chance for a tactical edge.

 

[Fenris-77]

Yes! Like if they put it in the rules where you get extra Command Points if you are inclusive and treat people with respect, those players would jump all over the chance for a tactical edge.

Not to pee in your cornflakes, but this sounds a lot like the Sportsmanship scoring they added to the tournament scene to try and mitigate rampant asshattery. All it did is encourage a certain sort of top player to game the system, max out scores, or blackmail opponents with the threat of low scores. Those doodes will find a way to make anything unpalatable.