Branstorming for ENnies 2003 -- improvements, changes, etc

[EarthsShadow]

What could work for next year, if this is possible, is to do a prerelease vote about three or four months before the actual ENnies of like 10-15 products within each category, and we as gamers vote on the most likely 5 books we would like to see fill that category. Give us like a single month to do this, and if it was possible to limit it to one vote per person, then that would be cool.

Once you get these tallied, release the top 5 within each category, then we vote on just one.

I bring this up because of some of the books that were 'nominated' for each category, I am sorry, but there were some way better books out there in each category, and yes, I say WotC got some books in there because of who they are. After all, if WotC didn't have a book in there, then how would it look? to some, it would show clear competition, to others who are diehard WotC fans, it would be a catastrophy. Play to the larger amount of fans, even though their are better quality books.

But, I am just one voice, and this is my stand. I know that others differ, and that's cool. We got the votes tallied, I for one would like to see the votes so I know for a fact that WotC won. Gosh, this does sound like our last election.

Oh well, no one can please everyone, but everyone likes to have a say. Many are outraged at the results, it looks like it was totally scewed in favor of WotC. Look at the front page of this website. Who's product content is showed on the right side of the pages each time we look on here? is it d20 stuff, or D&D stuff? This alone scews it in favor of WotC. If this site is a d20 site, then either it would show everones product information, which would be just way to hard to do, or it would show no ones and have each companies available for show as an equal opportunity.

So, is this contest a d20 contest, or a Dungeons and Dragons contest? If you say this is a dungeons and dragons contest, then I refute all my claims and leave it as is, and proclaim that all winners deserve to win the way it turned out. If this is a d20 contest, then I say it got scewed. And I think that perhaps a lot of people got confused about the true nature of the program.

From this, next year, everyone will be paying much more attention to how things are done, who is up for what award, and how the whole thing is structured. So, even though we might argue for a while, only good things will end up turning out from this. Also, I am not saying that all of WotC books are bad books, I just think that they were not good enough to win based on quality of book alone. That, however, does not mean its not the most popular book within the category.

 

[EOL]

In comparison, 1000 people say that they have seen the interior art of Flumphs of the Multiverse, but only 200 people vote for it. Normally, the WotC book would win, with 200 votes vs. 40. However, ABC Press's book impressed 80% of those who read it, while WotC's book only impressed 20%. Thus, ABC would win.

Just a thought. How does it sound?

On it's face it seems very elegent, I like it, but I think it does have one major potential problem, it changes it such that a fairly small number of people can have a disparate affect on the voting, sort of hamstringing the one man-->one vote principle in democracy.

In your example the people who voted for ABC's product had their votes counted with 20 times the weight of the people who voted for WotC's product. Now maybe people who are familiar with a vast array of D20 products should have more say, but that opens a whole other can of worms.

At it's logical extreme if some incredibly obscure product only had one person who claimed to see it and he voted for it that product would win no matter how many people liked the other products.

In addition in somewhat penalizes people for marketing, which is probably a negative thing.

Just my two cents...

 

[Magestrike]

My opinions...for what they are worth

I have followed this thread with great interest over the past few days, and I must say that there are a lot of very good opinions on here about what happened and what to do. Some I agree with; others I do not.

On most of the opinions, I must say that for my money, I agree with Clark. Again, in a storm of chaos and confusion, Clark reigns in with the voice of simplicity and reason.

Wizards is not a d20 publisher. They just arent.

Is this the inherent problem? Yes and no. They dont have to follow the license like every one else does, therefore they simply have an advantage over every other publisher. However, the most basic problem here isnt that fact. The problem is this.

What is an ENnie and what is it supposed to stand for?

This is the question that needs to be answered and all the confusion in this thread is moot until it is.

Is it supposed to be a reflection of the RPG market and the best there is in it? If so, Wizards should be included.

Is it supposed to be a reflection of the d20 market? Then Wizards shouldnt be included.

I think it boils down to those two basic questions. Once those are answered, then everything else falls into place. I do agree and like the idea about Wizards taking themselves out of contention and joining forces to sponsor the event. Thats a good idea.

On the topic of what winning/being nominated for an ENnie means to a publisher, I also have an opinion. I was involved with both Thunderhead products that were nominated this year, and I can tell you that when I saw that they had been put up, I was estactic. THG put out two products before joining with MEG, and both were nominated. I know the team that was involved with both and how much blood, sweat and tears went into producing both. Being nominated with the possibility of winning, in my opinion, means a great deal and meant a GREAT deal to the team. Whether it affects sales and whatnot I cant comment on. But I do know that it made a regular guy with a regular job, a family, and a regular life outside of the "industry" EXTREMELY happy. Thanks for the opportunity.

In closing, I would like to say congratulations to all the nominees, the winners, the judges, the publishers, the fans, the ENWorld crew and everyone else involved. Wonderful job.



Warren
"aka Mage"

 

[thg jim]

Wow! You get back from GenCon and a fire storm is brewing. From a "small publisher's" point of view, here is how I see it. BTW, this isn't a company statement, just my own opinion.

I want to directly compete with WOTC. If all you want to be is a small fish, then having WOTC lined up against you is a bad thing. I want to be a big fish. I want to be nominated along with them. I want to beat them. Did we do it this year? No. We did, however, take a very important first step in just being mentioned along with WOTC. I am aiming my personal sights very high. I am gunning for a win next year.

On the other hand, I think that a few awards could be reserved for d20 publishers. I know the d20 license very well and anyone who considers WOTC to be a d20 publisher is just plain wrong. They are not or, as far as I can forsee, they will not be. They did, however, allow d20 to come into existence. So, we could all duke it out in many categories, but there could be some along the lines of "Best d20 Publisher" or something like that.

Also, it appears that many people are of the opinion that because WOTC won most of the awards, being nominated doesn't mean much. That can not be farther from the truth. Sure, I expect to see WOTC nominated in almost every category. When I see our stuff along side of theirs, it makes it all worth while. To begin with, a small, select group of judges thought that, among everything they read, ours was among the best. All the hard work is immediately validated. Will it dramatically increase our sales? Doubtful. But, it will keep me working harder than every to put out great products.

I will put my vote down for more chairs next year

Jim Govreau
Director of Thunderhead Games

 

[Lady Dragon]

I agree with Thg jim and I think ultimately there's your answer have a couple of catagories for D20 only such as best d20 prouduct and best D20 publisher that way the D20 only companies can still win even if WoTC is still competing in the other catagories.That way everyone gets a shot WoTC,kenzer,The d20 companies and anyone else that gets a special license from WoTC in the future.

 

[dreamthief]

Magestrike, you raise very valid points. The thing we have to do now, is define WHAT is an Ennie? What does it recognise?

Also, it might not have recognition now, but I am sure it will gain momentum.

As a potential publisher do I want to compete against WotC? Yes, I do. Why? I think it keeps everyone on their toes. It ensures that that is the 'gold standard' to challenge. I think if a publisher wins and WotC is NOT in the running, it leaves a sour taste in the mouth. I want to be judged 'the best'. I don't want it to be judged 'the best excluding so-and-so'.

Of the awards WotC won, I see only one that's really in dispute which is OA. Even that is a fairly excellent product.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

EDIT: Never mind. That's what the "Ignore" function is for...

 

[EricNoah]

Of the awards WotC won, I see only one that's really in dispute which is OA. Even that is a fairly excellent product.

It is indeed. It's also different from most setting products in that it was more of a toolbox setting.

We only had maybe 7 or 8 products total to consider for Best Setting. The judges felt that OA was in the top 5. It was the voting public that voted it to first place. OA did not win by a large percentage, btw.

 

[Word]

This thread has been a whole lot to digest in one sitting. Please forgive me if I'm retreading something here. Just my thoughts hear, no official statements or anything.

Critics Choice vs. Fan's Choice
Speaking as a nominee and a d20 fan, I think this is the best idea. I also think it's already in place. Knowing that the judges have seen everything and selected your product makes the nomination a real honor. That's the critic's choice. Anything which grants one vote weight over another diminishes the value of the nominations and the awards. A simpler process, like the one we have now, is clearer and more honest. To me, that means "better." I get a real thrill out of knowing that Monte Cook and Ryan Dancey get one vote that's just as valuable as mine.

This means that a vote is representative not just of someone's appreciation of a product, but of their desire to obtain that product. Yes, this means that distribution plays a big part in the voting. That is unfortunate, but I think it's an acceptable shame.

Categories and Eligibility
Once the meaning of the ENnies can be determined, we can figure out WotC's eligibility. The d20 logo versus the d20 license debate is the most relevant, I think. What did it mean this year is sort of beside the point. The scope of the EN World Awards should be more closely defined and clearly explained to all participants, including voters.

I acknowledge that WotC is truly not operating under the d20 license. My opinion is that WotC should stay in the running, unless they voluntarily decide not to participate. Why? See below.

I think more categories are a bad idea, for the most part. Best Editing, if the criteria can be agreed upon, seems sound. I also think a category for Best Periodical would be valuable, because otherwise I think Dungeon/Polyhedron is going to win every year with what is fundamentally the same product when compared with other nominees. Yeah, the nomination is still a true joy, but the presentation of the award becomes sort of moot. A periodical category would put Dragon and Dungeon in the interesting position of competing against each other, perhaps.

The intersection of these two points is my quandry. Dungeon/Polyhedron really is a great product. It's a terrific product to lose to ("Yeah, I lost, but to the best value in gaming!"). But imagine how wonderful it would feel to be chosen over Dungeon/Polyhedron!

The ENnies Are Not A Market Study
Worrying about the ability of the ENnies to model the genuine feelings of the D20 purchasing audience isn't worth it. I sure hope these awards aren't perceived as a marketing survey in a tuxedo. It's already been said, the voters represent just a slice of the market. It's the community here that the awards are about, and sharing respect. The more complex the machine gets, the more maintenance it will need. If the voters ever fail to fully understand how the process works, the value of the votes will fall further into question. (This, I think, is where we can find the parable for our most recent American election.)

If individuals have opinions about the eligibility of WotC products, they should vote for their favorite non-WotC book on the ballot. That's what a vote is worth. That's how a vote works. It's contrary to purpose to present nominees and then restrict the voting.

Likewise, I'm just sharing my vote here. There are people more informed than I who will do right by the ENnies in Indianapolis as they did in Milwaukee.

word,
Will Hindmarch
Atlas Games

 

[Pramas]

* the WoTC folks, when accepting awards, on at least two occasions thanked the members of the Spine Design Team. Which, is exactly what you think it is - a team who does nothing by design the spine of a book. Apparently, it's a two-person team, but the fact that they have a *team* to do just that speaks volumes about the resources that WoTC utilizes to produce a book.

Spine Design is more than two people. It is the admittedly strange name for the large department that handles the art and design side of the business. It includes art directors, typesetters, graphic designers, and so on. In short, they make the books look pretty.