D&D 5E (2024) Breaking The Eldritch Knight (Eberron)

[Ancoulainn]

My big negative on CME is its just single target damage.

Im not a fan of that in spellcasters. We tried here and we foukdnt even theorycraft one tgats goid until level 11 or so.

If you have a 5MWD maybe. Outside that eh.

Theres just better things to do. Adding CME to a different build eg enerron fighter. That's a bit different.

Yeah, if you're a big Eldritch Knight with Mark of Storm and Great Weapon Master, so you'll have to be in the frontline anyway, it's a different story. But I still wonder whether CME would be the better choice over Spirit Shroud unless you can precast it. If not, it looks like this:

Round 1+ with Spirit Shroud: 2d6+1d8+9 per attack, so 20.5. At level 13, that's 61.5 with three attacks.

In Round 1 with CME, you do nothing else. Even if you take Polearm Master, you cannot use Pole Strike after using the Magic Action. Same applies to Dual Wielder. In Round 2+, you then do 2d6+2d8+9=25. At level 13, that's 75 with three attacks. If you use Polearm Master with a Glaive, you get 3x(1d10+2d8+9)=69.5+1d4+5+2d8=86. With Dual Wielder and Nick, you get 5x(1d6+2d8+5)=87.5.

Based on that, you need at least 3-4 rounds of combat before CME catches up with Spirit Shroud and overtakes it, assuming you maintain concentration throughout. And that's comparing a third level spell with a fourth level spell. Quite frankly, the spell went from a busted spell that was nowhere ready for release to a spell that is hardly worth talking about. I know there are plenty of people, including Treantmonk, who love CME and at first glance, they have a point. But when you think further about it and give it a second look, there's simply not enough there.

The only major advantage I can see is if you have an Eberron campaign that ends before level 13 in which you can take advantage of the Potent Dragonmark feature once per day and cast CME at level 7.

But in comparison, you can grab the Mark of Passage and have a Flying Mount by level 7 and rain bolts/arrows/fireballs/etc down while staying out of reach. Even Mark of Sentinel with Bigby's Hand at level 9 can be situationally better when grappling a huge target is what you need.

 

[Zardnaar]

Yeah, if you're a big Eldritch Knight with Mark of Storm and Great Weapon Master, so you'll have to be in the frontline anyway, it's a different story. But I still wonder whether CME would be the better choice over Spirit Shroud unless you can precast it. If not, it looks like this:

Round 1+ with Spirit Shroud: 2d6+1d8+9 per attack, so 20.5. At level 13, that's 61.5 with three attacks.

In Round 1 with CME, you do nothing else. Even if you take Polearm Master, you cannot use Pole Strike after using the Magic Action. Same applies to Dual Wielder. In Round 2+, you then do 2d6+2d8+9=25. At level 13, that's 75 with three attacks. If you use Polearm Master with a Glaive, you get 3x(1d10+2d8+9)=69.5+1d4+5+2d8=86. With Dual Wielder and Nick, you get 5x(1d6+2d8+5)=87.5.

Based on that, you need at least 3-4 rounds of combat before CME catches up with Spirit Shroud and overtakes it, assuming you maintain concentration throughout. And that's comparing a third level spell with a fourth level spell. Quite frankly, the spell went from a busted spell that was nowhere ready for release to a spell that is hardly worth talking about. I know there are plenty of people, including Treantmonk, who love CME and at first glance, they have a point. But when you think further about it and give it a second look, there's simply not enough there.

The only major advantage I can see is if you have an Eberron campaign that ends before level 13 in which you can take advantage of the Potent Dragonmark feature once per day and cast CME at level 7.

But in comparison, you can grab the Mark of Passage and have a Flying Mount by level 7 and rain bolts/arrows/fireballs/etc down while staying out of reach. Even Mark of Sentinel with Bigby's Hand at level 9 can be situationally better when grappling a huge target is what you need.

Dragomarks happy at 5th iirc.

If you dont care about 20 ASAP yeah 18 and this seems great. Dual wielding or a halberd.

Ive seen spirit guardians go the distance duration wise so fight could probably help it up..

 

[Ancoulainn]

Dragomarks happy at 5th iirc.

If you dont care about 20 ASAP yeah 18 and this seems great. Dual wielding or a halberd.

Ive seen spirit guardians go the distance duration wise so fight could probably help it up..

The extra spell slot is half your level and CME needs a 4th level slot, so you need to be level 7 to cast CME once per long rest. At 5th, you can get a free Conjure Barrage with Mark of Making, though. As a Fighter, you get Extra Attack at 5th. And yes, you can push your Strength to 18 at 4 with Great Weapon Master, Polearm Master, or Dual Wielder. Otherwise, I have no idea what you mean.

Spirit Guardians is an entirely different scenario than CME or Spirit Shroud since the damage is passive and damages everything in range. In fact, you can just stand there as a Cleric in plate with shield (and hopefully shield spell from Mark of Sentinel or Magic Initiate) and take the Dodge action and as a War Cleric add your bonus action attack or the concentration-free Spiritual Weapon via Channel Divinity. And if the group plays along and uses lots of forced movement, you can get additional damage on other's turns. And even on saves, you deal half damage which adds up. It's a far superior approach.

 

[Zardnaar]

The extra spell slot is half your level and CME needs a 4th level slot, so you need to be level 7 to cast CME once per long rest. At 5th, you can get a free Conjure Barrage with Mark of Making, though. As a Fighter, you get Extra Attack at 5th. And yes, you can push your Strength to 18 at 4 with Great Weapon Master, Polearm Master, or Dual Wielder. Otherwise, I have no idea what you mean.

Spirit Guardians is an entirely different scenario than CME or Spirit Shroud since the damage is passive and damages everything in range. In fact, you can just stand there as a Cleric in plate with shield (and hopefully shield spell from Mark of Sentinel or Magic Initiate) and take the Dodge action and as a War Cleric add your bonus action attack or the concentration-free Spiritual Weapon via Channel Divinity. And if the group plays along and uses lots of forced movement, you can get additional damage on other's turns. And even on saves, you deal half damage which adds up. It's a far superior approach.

Its per short rest iirc.

Im not a fan of CME most builds.

I wouldf have to test a couple.

 

[TheSword]

I think the big draw backs in this are;

• You’re basically giving up your first turn to cast this. With most combats lasting 3 turns that’s a big problem.
• For longer combats, despite Warcaster and Con proficiency you are still going to rolling Conc save on every incidence of damage taken. For a front line melee fighter with Con 12 (which I presume if Dex and Cha are maxed out). That is a problem if you get targeted - and you will be if you’re dealing that damage then you could lose CME pretty fast.

All that said, I think it looks pretty fun. Though it’s such a specific character build. Eberron, House Lysander, Eldritch Knight, Level 7+ I wouldn’t be too worried about it.

However if you used the Mark of the Storm to cast Conjure Minor Elementals doing acid damage because your enemy had lightning resistance/immunity, I would kick you from the group salt the ground where you sat. It’s the mark of the frickin Storm!

 

[Ancoulainn]

Its per short rest iirc.

Im not a fan of CME most builds.

I wouldf have to test a couple.

That's right. It's per short rest.

 

[Not a Decepticon]

At level 7 you can use true strike. And cast conjure Minor Elementals 1/short rest.

How are you supposed to cast CME 1/short rest on level 7 as Eldritch Knight?

 

[UngeheuerLich]

+2 is duelist weapon style.

Basically you're getting CME on a fighter without 7 levels of druid or wizard or 10 levels of bard.

On a 4d6 weapon gwf is also +2.

 

[Silam]

How are you supposed to cast CME 1/short rest on level 7 as Eldritch Knight?

That tripped me up too. It’s because of the Potent Dragonmark feat from Eberron: Forge of the Artificer.