Breaking the stereotype of the chaste paladin

[Cithindril]

Fusangite,

Good points, I also believe that D&D is as rich as it is because it does grow and develop over time. For me, I think the Paladin is defined by struggling to live out the demands of his/her LG alignment within the greater context of serving the god / church to which the character is pledged. So again, while I've always tended to cast this calling in Arthurian terms I think the first question a player or DM will have to address is the nature of alignment in their setting (ie: are alignments absolute moral standards, or do their definitions depend on the cultural mores of the society?). It's an interesting question and becomes very relevant when you consider a setting like Eberron which does not adhere to the traditional interpretation of what alignments mean.

PEACE!

 

[Gez]

Interesting to know. As with most story books, they do away with the social consequences of certain types of behavior to please their audience. I would not buy into a Paladin of this type because I have read of the great lengths holy men have gone to mythically and historically to obtain their divine connection with a given god. The level of discipline and devotion required is immense and leaves little time for the pursuit of base vices such as lechery and gluttony.

Which is where one of the most original aspect of 3H&3L comes. Holger Danske, which is known in chansons de geste as Ogier the Dane, comes from our very own Earth. He was an engineer, who was sent to this mythical world after being wounded during a gunfight with Nazis, during WW2. He discovers that he actually belong to both world, ours and the mythical one, and that he is a sort of Eternal Champion of Law. (Moorcock took his inspiration for the war between Order and Chaos, and for the concept of the Eternal Champion, in this novel.)

So, you have a Paladin who is a Paladin because he is chosen to be one. When his mind is still fresh from his rational, modern, upbringing, he doesn't involve in "discipline and devotion to obtain his divine connection with God."

He engages in several things that would be considered very unpaladinish -- like casual sex with Meriven, or when he uses the wizard Martinus' services to magically disguise himself, his horse, and his shield, so as to avoid being identified by a stranger that is looking for him. Yet, he was the prime inspiration for the Paladin class -- and he his an overall good guy, brave, resourceful, and just.

 

[WizarDru]

Interesting to know. As with most story books, they do away with the social consequences of certain types of behavior to please their audience. I would not buy into a Paladin of this type because I have read of the great lengths holy men have gone to mythically and historically to obtain their divine connection with a given god. The level of discipline and devotion required is immense and leaves little time for the pursuit of base vices such as lechery and gluttony.

Do you envision a scenario where casual, consensual sex is not a base vice? There seems to be an implication in your statement that sex for a paladin is essentially a sin regardless of the circumstances, and that even marriage would be considered a vice.

Several folks seems also to be almost suggesting that having children, for a paladin, is a terrible thing. Frankly, that almost makes it sound like children are a penalty or a consequence, not a goal, which is hard for me to wrap my head around. Is a paladin nothing more than a suicide squad member?

It seems that the Arthurian myths are filled with plenty of knights who had consensual sex. One also has to consider that Mallory filtered many of the stories, because he had his own goals to bring to his interpetation, some of which included his own statements about making commentary of love and religion in the England of his time. None of which invalidates peoples notions of what he wrote, just pointing out that there are lots of variants.

 

[LostSoul]

1) An order of LG gay paladins.

2) An order of LE (Unearthed Arcana variant) paladins.

Those are some cool ideas.

 

[Sejs]

1) An order of LG gay paladins.

Heh, the first thing that sprang to mind: Sparta meets Heironious.

 

[Vocenoctum]

In 1e, I remember that there were strict limits on Paladins' material acquisitions so as to prevent them from settling down and founding established organizations like what the original poster describes.

Actually, I'm pretty sure you could specifically set aside money for a base of operations/ home. 1e is quite buried right now.
(Though, the tithe was 10%, plus all the excess you didn't use.)

 

[fusangite]

Actually, I'm pretty sure you could specifically set aside money for a base of operations/ home. 1e is quite buried right now.
(Though, the tithe was 10%, plus all the excess you didn't use.)

I seem to recall a very small list of the maximum number of items a paladin was allowed to own. Perhaps someone with a 1E PHB will jog our memories.

 

[FireLance]

I seem to recall a very small list of the maximum number of items a paladin was allowed to own. Perhaps someone with a 1E PHB will jog our memories.

If I remember correctly, the limit was only for magical items. I do not recall a limit for ordinary items beyond a statement that the paladin should not retain more than enought funds to support himself in a moderate manner (no hoarding of gold to upgrade his gear, for example). The ten-item limit was as follows (again, IIRC):

1. Four weapons
2. One suit of armor
3. One shield
4. Four other magic items of any kind

 

[Vocenoctum]

I remember the 10% tithe, the ten item limit (with various clarifications for years thereafter.) and you can't keep excess gold beyond what you needed for upkeep and later on for the castle/ tower/ followers.

 

[NewJeffCTHome]

I seem to recall a very small list of the maximum number of items a paladin was allowed to own. Perhaps someone with a 1E PHB will jog our memories.

Unfortunately, I recently moved and my long retired 1E PHB & DMG are still in boxes in my basement.