Brew potions without brew potions

[Shin Okada]

Potion of healing was also errated to be level 1.

Would you please teach me when and in with which document it is errated?

I checked the newest update (UpdateMar2010.pdf) but cannot find such a notion.

 

[Camelot]

Potion of Healing has officially been errataed to be 1st level.

I believe you have it confused. The Brew Potion ritual was errataed to be level 1, but not the Potion of Healing.

The thing was that both the Brew Potion ritual and the Potion of Healing were level 5, which was all right with just the material in the Player's Handbook. However, when they made the Adventurer's Vault, they added potions and elixirs that were level 4. Although there are no potions or elixirs of level 3 or lower, the fact that they made level 4 potions gives the potential for level 3 or lower potions to exist. Therefore, they changed the ritual Brew Potion to be level 1 so that it would be able to be used if level 1 potions or elixirs were ever published, so that they could be created at the start of the game, since they are more useful at level 1 than magic items are. As of now, though, the ritual just as well may be level 4.

As to using enchant magic item to make potions, I'm on the side that says you can't. If you could use that ritual to make potions, what would be the point of Brew Potion? In addition, potions and elixirs are in a separate category of magic items than slot items are: consumables. Unlike slot items, these have one use and are then expended. Therefore, they cannot be upgraded to a higher level, because they don't last that long. Enchant Magic Item only allows you to create slot itmes; consumables, as well as wondrous items, cannot be created by that ritual.

 

[eriktheguy]

I believe you have it confused. The Brew Potion ritual was errataed to be level 1, but not the Potion of Healing.

The thing was that both the Brew Potion ritual and the Potion of Healing were level 5, which was all right with just the material in the Player's Handbook. However, when they made the Adventurer's Vault, they added potions and elixirs that were level 4. Although there are no potions or elixirs of level 3 or lower, the fact that they made level 4 potions gives the potential for level 3 or lower potions to exist. Therefore, they changed the ritual Brew Potion to be level 1 so that it would be able to be used if level 1 potions or elixirs were ever published, so that they could be created at the start of the game, since they are more useful at level 1 than magic items are. As of now, though, the ritual just as well may be level 4.

That was my interpretation as well.

As to using enchant magic item to make potions, I'm on the side that says you can't. If you could use that ritual to make potions, what would be the point of Brew Potion?

I agree with this interpretation as a sensible person, but this argument is not valid by RAW. If a ritual lets you create any magic item, and potions are magic items, then it lets you create potions. It may not have been the intention, but most of the arguments I've seen are simply stating that. "It doesn't make sense" or "that wasn't the intention" "but then what is the point of" is not a valid counterargument to RAW.

In addition, potions and elixirs are in a separate category of magic items than slot items are: consumables. Unlike slot items, these have one use and are then expended. Therefore, they cannot be upgraded to a higher level, because they don't last that long. Enchant Magic Item only allows you to create slot itmes; consumables, as well as wondrous items, cannot be created by that ritual.

Enchant magic item: You touch a normal item and turn it into a magic item of your level or lower. The ritual’s component cost is equal to the price of the magic item you create.


There is no mention of consumable or slot items. Given your description, magic items can be divided into three categories; slot, consumable, and non-slot. There is a ritual for creating potions/elixirs and a ritual for creating magic items. You are suggesting (but providing no supporting evidence) that the ritual which says it can make "a magic item of your level or lower", can in fact only create magic items which are equipped to a slot, and not consumables or non-slot items. This would mean it is impossible for players to manufacture magical:
wondrous items
consumables (oils, ammo, whetstones, reagents, others)

Finally, sending stones (PHB) and stylus of the translator (AV) are wondrous items that specifically reference being created in their text. If no ritual can create them, why would it say that?

 

[Camelot]

I know that my interpretation isn't RAW, but RAW has problems, so I like to solve them with RAI and reading in between the lines.

Everything should be useful (because of the balance of 4e), so in order to make Brew Potion useful beyond level 5, I don't allow consumables to be made with Enchant Magic Item.

In my interpretation, wondrous items are special. They cannot just be created by a general "create magic item" ritual. They have a story to why they were created, or a specific ritual that creates an individual item but no others. The characters don't need those rituals, and sometimes don't even need to know the story. They just know that they find this item in the dungeon or in a store and they take/buy it, and now they can use it, but they can't create such items by themselves.

Consumables (including potions and elixirs) are so useful and common that they are found for purchase in almost any town or city, and frequently in dungeons as well. I like to remove the middle man of a ritual and just let them buy the items. Potions and elixirs stand out from the consumables because they are even more useful and common that they get their own ritual just in case the PCs need more potions in the middle of an adventure.

Wondrous items can be created, just not by the PCs (or at least not commonly enough that a RAW ritual needs to be written up; if the PCs are at the level of the item and the story calls for it, they can probably find a way to create it). PCs will likely find or buy already created wondrous items with those choices already determined for them. The stylus will already have a language "programmed" into it; the pair of sending stones will already be tuned to each other. The RAW text just allows there to be multiple options for one item, but its usually the DMs choice, not the PCs.

I understand that most of this is just my interpretation and isn't said by the rules. That's my purpose as a DM: take what has been given to me by the rules and make it fun and understandable for my group; I don't assume this to be fun or understandable to all groups, but just in case I might as well throw it out there. =)