Brew potions without brew potions

[eriktheguy]

Potions are magical items (PHB, 255). The enchant magic item ritual allows you to create any magic item of your level or lower (PHB, 304).
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you can create potions with enchant magic item. Brew potion is a ritual for characters level 1-3, or characters trained in religion and not arcana.
Furthermore, a character with the enchant magic item can upgrade a potion to a higher level, as per the rules in the adventurer's vault. Character's with brew potion can not do this.
I spent awhile on Google trying to find the reason that I'm wrong, and I can't. So is this an oversight or the intention of the system?
Edit: all potions are level 4 or higher anyways, so the ritual is useless until level 4...

 

[Saagael]

I'd say that the the enchant magic item ritual does not allow for the creation of potions. The enchant magic item ritual states "You touch a normal item and turn it into a magic item", which to me says that there must be a mundane counterpart to the magic item. Potions don't really have that mundane counterpart, unless you consider that to be water or something.

Despite being magic, I would not say that potions are magic items in the context of that ritual. They are potions, not magic items. The enchant magic item can upgrade a potion, but it cannot allow you to create them.

 

[ahammer]

on this same point the forge armor training says you can forge masterwork armor .

would you be able to make masterwork armor with enchant magic item?

 

[holywhitetrash]

on this same point the forge armor training says you can forge masterwork armor .

would you be able to make masterwork armor with enchant magic item?

no i am pretty sure that masterwork must be made through other means than enchant item

 

[eriktheguy]

I'd say that the the enchant magic item ritual does not allow for the creation of potions. The enchant magic item ritual states "You touch a normal item and turn it into a magic item", which to me says that there must be a mundane counterpart to the magic item. Potions don't really have that mundane counterpart, unless you consider that to be water or something.

Despite being magic, I would not say that potions are magic items in the context of that ritual. They are potions, not magic items. The enchant magic item can upgrade a potion, but it cannot allow you to create them.

The mundane counterpart issue seems to be the only obstacle here. It doesn't appear to be a problem for potion-like items, such as oils, or other obscure items with no obvious mundane counterpart. For all I know the mundane counterpart of a potion is an empty flask.

on this same point the forge armor training says you can forge masterwork armor .

would you be able to make masterwork armor with enchant magic item?

I'm assuming so. This is mostly a result of Wizards doing a terrible job explaining masterwork armor, questions about these mechanics are very common. I'm pretty sure that using enchant magic item to create magical armor also provides the masterwork portion, as the description for masterwork says that it is included in the cost, and this is the same cost that enchant magic item uses. Else the enchant magic item feat basically doesn't function for armor past level 10, which seems a little arbitrary.

 

[Alisair Longreach]

Potion of Healing has officially been errataed to be 1st level.

With some slight house rule editing you could make Potions of Healing with an Arcana skill check or maybe an alchemical recipe.

 

[Mort_Q]

What's wrong with the level 1 (also errata) Brew Potion ritual?

 

[eriktheguy]

Potion of Healing has officially been errataed to be 1st level.

With some slight house rule editing you could make Potions of Healing with an Arcana skill check or maybe an alchemical recipe.

I couldn't find this in the official errata or in character builder or compendium. Maybe you meant that the feat was errataed?
You can already make healing pots with arcana using enchant magic item, or so I am claiming.

What's wrong with the level 1 (also errata) Brew Potion ritual?

The ritual was errataed to be available at level 1, but no potions are lower than level 4. Hence the ritual is worthless until level 4, at which point you may as well take enchant magic item if you are trained in arcana. Since potions are magic items, you should be able to create them with this ritual.


Unless someone knows of a reason why this wouldn't work?

 

[Deverash]

I couldn't find this in the official errata or in character builder or compendium. Maybe you meant that the feat was errataed?
You can already make healing pots with arcana using enchant magic item, or so I am claiming.



The ritual was errataed to be available at level 1, but no potions are lower than level 4. Hence the ritual is worthless until level 4, at which point you may as well take enchant magic item if you are trained in arcana. Since potions are magic items, you should be able to create them with this ritual.


Unless someone knows of a reason why this wouldn't work?

Other than what listed above.

Also, there is no restriction saying you have to be trained in the key skill to use a ritual. While there are definite drawbacks to not being trained if it requires a roll (Wis dump stat characters untrained in Heal using Remove Affliction? *shudder*), if there's no roll required, then the only reason it matters is for what type of ritual components it uses.

I had considered a house rule to require you to be trained for rituals that don't require a check, but have yet to implement it.

 

[MrBeens]

I couldn't find this in the official errata or in character builder or compendium. Maybe you meant that the feat was errataed?
You can already make healing pots with arcana using enchant magic item, or so I am claiming.



The ritual was errataed to be available at level 1, but no potions are lower than level 4. Hence the ritual is worthless until level 4, at which point you may as well take enchant magic item if you are trained in arcana. Since potions are magic items, you should be able to create them with this ritual.


Unless someone knows of a reason why this wouldn't work?

Potion of healing was also errated to be level 1.
You don't need to be trained in a skill to master a ritual. Both brew potion and enchant magic item don't need a skill check so all the arcana part of the ritual does is determine which ritual ingredients it uses.