Brilliant Energy vs. Fortification

[Artoomis]

Which shouldn't be a balancing factor. Making it give a touch attack would make it pretty much even for everyone, make it a decent choice although hard (because of certain creatures immunities), and make it worth the cost.

It would change nothing on the end of the adversaries, but would make it actually useful for PC's. Sounds like a win/win situation to me.

Making it a Touch Attack would be grotesquely powerful. Many creatures that PCs face have terrible Touch ACs.

I would only consider it if it was the only enchantment allowed for a weapon beyond the +1 that was required. Even then, I'd charge for it as +9, and probably STILL not allow it.

 

[Caliban]

Sorry for all of the hijacks, once again the brilliant energy as written does not bypass the other enhancements.. although with the awkward wording I could see someone trying to make a case.

I'm not sure what you are talking about. It pretty clearly says that it does bypess the armor bonus, including enhancements.

"Armor bonuses to AC (including any enhancement bonuses to that armor) do not count against it because the weapon passes through armor. "

 

[Scion]

Making it a Touch Attack would be grotesquely powerful. Many creatures that PCs face have terrible Touch ACs.

The only thing it would effect beyond what it does now is natural armor. You could probably up it to +5, but that would be about it. Having the extra damage or options from other things is still a big hit. The extra +4 to hit and damage (along with effecting more creatures) is still pretty good. Having it ignore natural armor just puts it into the same situation that enemies get when they use it against the party. Turn around is fair play after all

 

[James McMurray]

A touch attack would be way to powerful for a +4 enhancement. As it is, Brilliant is a nice enhancement for a backup weapon for PCs, or a primary weapon for NPCs. In the last battle my campaign had, Brilliant Energy would have helped considerably in making sure the iterative attacks also hit. It would also have allowed for much greater power attack, meaning more dead foes, less dead PCs.

 

[Artoomis]

I'm not sure what you are talking about. It pretty clearly says that it does bypass the armor bonus, including enhancements.

"Armor bonuses to AC (including any enhancement bonuses to that armor) do not count against it because the weapon passes through armor. "

I'm not certain, but I think Scion meant "enhancements" in the generic sense - not the "enhancement bonus" but other properties like fortification.

 

[Scion]

A touch attack would be way to powerful for a +4 enhancement.

Like I said, all it changes is that natural armor is also ignored. Which all that does is basically make the weapon enhancement more reciprocal between the pc's and the opponents.

 

[Scion]

I'm not certain, but I think Scion meant "enhancements" in the generic sense - not the "enhancement bonus" but other properties like fortification.

Of course, there is armor and the +'s to armor bonus, and then there are the 'other enhancements' which are the things that use psuedo enhancement plus's and the ones that cost money. Unfortunately they pretty much all have the same name, but I thought it would be easy to tell what i was saying from the context.

 

[Caliban]

Of course, there is armor and the +'s to armor bonus, and then there are the 'other enhancements' which are the things that use psuedo enhancement plus's and the ones that cost money. Unfortunately they pretty much all have the same name, but I thought it would be easy to tell what i was saying from the context.

Err.. there are no "other enhancements". There are enhancement bonuses to armor, and there are armor special abilities. Armor special abilities have a market price modifier that may or may not be equvalent in price to an enhancement increase on the armor.

That's what was confusing me. I didn't realize you were referring to the armor special abilities. Of course it doesn't ignore those.

 

[James McMurray]

Like I said, all it changes is that natural armor is also ignored. Which all that does is basically make the weapon enhancement more reciprocal between the pc's and the opponents.

Do you mean to say that ignoring armor and natural armor is only worth a +4 bonus?

 

[heliopolix]

Do you mean to say that ignoring armor and natural armor is only worth a +4 bonus?

What i believe he means is this : Per RAW, Brilliant Energy does not ignore Natural Armor. If you made Brilliant Energy = Touch Attack, it would. The problem I see with this is that it would become a much more useful enchantment in the hands of the PC's. To compare it against some opponents that a character with access to a +5 weapon might face (using character wealth by lvl - Table 5-1 pg. 135 in DMG, and assuming that the character uses ~1/3 of his wealth on the weapon - lvl 14):

Adult Red Dragon - CR 15 - AC 29 (-2 size, +21 narural
Bril.Enrgy AC 29
Touch AC 8 <- Wins

Beholder - CR 13 - AC 26 (-1 size, +2 Dex, +15 Natural)
BE AC 26
Touch AC 11 <- Wins

Nalfeshnee - CR 14 - AC 27 (-2 size, +1 Dex, +18 Natural)
BE AC 27
Touch AC 9 <-Wins

Lvl 14 NPC fighter - CR 14 - AC 27 (+1 Dex, +10armor , +3 shield, +2natural, +1 deflection)
BE AC - 14
Touch AC - 12 <- Wins, but the difference is small.

Storm Giant - CR 13 - AC 27 (-2 size, +2 Dex, +5 Breastplate, +12 natural)
BE AC 22
Touch AC 10 <-wins

What i'm really trying to say with all this is that BE is a great if your GM puts lots of "Humanoid in Armor" types as encounters, but vs the great majority of the monsters in the MM, it simply isnt worth it. However, that BBEG rogue w/ improved invis + BE dagger is going to give the PC fighter nightmares for years. YMMV by campaign/ DM choice of monsters.

To aswer the quote, no, a enhancement that made all attacks touch attacks would be an epic-level enchantment, definitely much more than +4.