D&D 5E Bring Back Bonus Attacks

[Li Shenron]

No thanks. Multiple attacks slow the game down far too much for my taste- far more than the one attack with tons of damage does. Every attack is a decision point; every bonus die of damage is not (although with maneuvers, you can trade some of the dice off, so there is that).

No, I absolutely think multiple attacks at high levels are a drag on the game. The warrior's surge- get an extra action now and then- is okay, but the "every round four attacks!" model sucks IMHO.

I think four attacks is indeed starting to be quite too many, but I think we all probably have in mind 3ed mechanics of iterative attacks with different (decreasing) bonuses. I believe it is the different bonuses that unnecessarily drag the game down. For most people, a cumulative -5 to each following attack is definitely not an unsurmountable (?) mathematical problem, but IMHO just the idea that you are re-calculating your total bonus at each attack is already unsettling...

But if all iterative attacks are identical, they don't really drag the game down. Most of the times, they boil down to the same scenario: the PC keeps attacking the same target until she runs out of attacks OR until the target dies, in which case the PC shifts to another target. Many times, it's not a huge difference from doing one single big attack, but personally I prefer the multiple attacks because of a couple of reasons: they smooth down the probability curve giving your high-level PC a feeling of reliability (because it's not all-or-nothing), and they work better in a battle against lots of minions (tho it's understandable that some DM don't like having this kind of battles at all, but I do). I really like the idea that a high-level combatant is fast and can deal with a lot of enemies in a short time... you see this all the times in movies, from James Bond to westerns to martial arts, and I think it's a pity if D&D doesn't support this at least a bit (although there are other ways beyond mere iterative attacks to do so).

But again, I really think the problem of dragging down the game happens only if the attacks are not identical. First of all, if the attack bonuses are different, this is already a small drag. But maybe the issue can still be there even in that case, if for instance you have limited-use attack abilities that the PC cannot apply to all iterative attacks (e.g. a daily-based Paladin's smite ability).

Also I want to point out that this is typically a high-level issue, where IMXP spellcasters typically take a MUCH LONGER time resolving their turn than a fighter with even 4 iterative attacks. In the current iteration of the game, I am much more concerned with the drag to the game brought by all the spells that allow you to also attack in the same turn.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Yeah, I can't say as I'm eager to see multiple attacks come back either. There's enough for players to do already. You already have potential extra actions with Haste, Cleave, Whirlwind Attack, Two Weapons, Surge, Reactions, Extra Reaction Feats...

Oh, man, "come back?" My thri-kreen ranger/monk with a quickened ki focus and all the minor-action attacks she can pile onto herself wonders if maybe the rumors of their death have been greatly exaggerated.

Ruffling Sting + Twin Strike + Convert Move to Minor for Thri-Kreen Claws + Flurry of Blows + Quarry Damage + Quickened Ki Focus basic attack + Action Point maybe for something that lets me move and make an attack or two so I can still get my 8 squares of movement...

Anyway, multi-attacks are part and parcel of the play experience, IMO. It's fun, it feels powerful, it's awesome. Maybe not something you want to happen every round in every combat, but 1/day or so on a big fight? Yeah, that works.

 

[drothgery]

The big issue with multiple attacks is that they're hard to balance properly, because they scale in steps and because you get all or most of your bonuses multiple times. Between than and slowing the game down, I'm okay with a class that has multi-attacks as its schtick, but I don't think it should be a normal part of the progression of melee characters.

 

[YRUSirius]

I think it should be a normal part of the fighter progression, but no one else (MAYBE rangers or paladins, but then only 1 additional attack).

-YRUSirius

 

[Stormonu]

I think the old 5/2 max for weapon specialists should be put back in place .

Kidding aside, look at the AOE attacks of wizards. I think a fighter type should be able to up to two "dedicated" attacks where he's make seperate attack rolls, but have some expertise dice tricks where he can do a "whirlwind" like area attack where one attack roll is made, but it hits a bunch of opponents (say, up to everyone within his base move and he can end up in any square in the AOE - as if he weaved through the opponents making attacks against them).

 

[Li Shenron]

Kidding aside, look at the AOE attacks of wizards.

Indeed, this is a good point... A large AOE spell is typically going to require more dice rolls at the table (in the form of ST or potentially even SR in 3ed) than multiple attacks, if there are lots of monsters in the area.

 

[karolusb]

• A Bonus Attack can only be used if the primary attack is successful (like exploding dice). If their Primary Attack misses, no Bonus Attacks...they are done for the round.
• Subsequent Bonus Attacks can only be used if the preceding Bonus Attack was successful (again, like exploding dice). As soon as they miss on an attack, they are done for the round.

I think this would likely be the second worst possible implementation of this in the game (right after 3e). I want to be able to grab 2 (or maybe rarely 3) d20, a number of matching d8's (or so) and throw dice. I want to throw off some ac's declare hits and damage. I certainly don't want to calculate the full effect of each roll before making the next, that is exactly how you bog the game down. (I also don't want damage scaling to only happen for people who two weapon fight, but that is an argument against a different suggestion).

Taking 2e as a reasonable baseline, the even numbered rounds too (when you made the two attacks in your 3/2 progression) took no longer than the odd rounds, but that is because you don't dink around with it, you roll dice and declare effect.

 

[El Mahdi]

deleted

 

[Sadrik]

I really like the concept of the fighter types getting combat points instead of combat dice. They can spend these points to activate their maneuvers/combat feats which could give them bonus attacks or bonus damage or some more specialized maneuver. If they were to receive 1 point every odd level it might cost 3 combat points to get a bonus attack that round or 2 points to get a bonus 1d6 precision damage. A rogue might spend 1 point to get 1d6 sneak attack damage, or spend 3 points as a reaction to utilize evasion. Etc. very clean system and can be used with some beads or pennies each round.

 

[Warbringer]

Multiple attacks does not have to mean multiple dice rolls to hit.... One roll and compare ...