Bubble-boy: Line of Effect issues.

[hong]

I'm not sure why you would intentionally misinterpret the rules in such a broken fashion

What part of "you must have a clear line of effect to any target that you cast a spell on" do you have trouble understanding?

I thought it was fairly obvious that the window-line of effect applied to spells like Fireball, or many ray spells, that have a physical component affected by such physical barriers.

Clearly, you were wrong. Don't sweat it, it happens.


Hong "to some people, more than others" Ooi

 

[Ratama]

What part of "you must have a clear line of effect to any target that you cast a spell on" do you have trouble understanding?

Only certain spells like Wall of Force state that they block LoE of most spells; I'm sorry that you allow regular windows to have the same potency.

Clearly, you were wrong. Don't sweat it, it happens.

Why the hell would I worry, when I wasn't even wrong?

It's your game your mucking up, if you let regular windows block spells.

I'd love to see the look on your face after a judge's ruling at a convention if you tried to tell him that being in a phone booth made you proof against the BBEG's Hold spell.

 

[hong]

Only certain spells like Wall of Force state that they block LoE of most spells; I'm sorry that you allow regular windows to have the same potency.

Tch. I'm sorry to see that your reading comprehension skills don't seem to be working today.

Why the hell would I worry, when I wasn't even wrong?

What part of "A line of effect is cancelled by a solid barrier" do you have trouble understanding?

It's your game your mucking up, if you let regular windows block spells.

No prob. Just admit you're blustering to cover the fact you have no idea what you're talking about, and we can all go home.

I'd love to see the look on your face after a judge's ruling at a convention if you tried to tell him that being in a phone booth made you proof against the BBEG's Hold spell.

I'd love to see the look on your face after said judge ruled you couldn't cast a hold spell on the BBEG, on account of your being in a phone booth.

 

[Ratama]

Tch. I'm sorry to see that your reading comprehension skills don't seem to be working today.

Don't be sorry; my reading comprehension skills are just fine.

What part of "A line of effect is cancelled by a solid barrier" do you have trouble understanding?

It's something called 'context'.

This is a helpful hint for everyone, not just Hong; if people are using windows for cover from targetted spells IYC, you might want to reexamine your interpretation of Line of Effect and Line of Sight.

No prob. Just admit you're blustering to cover the fact you have no idea what you're talking about, and we can all go home.

/shrug

You can camp this thread and yammer at your screen all day, if it makes you feel better; I hope you get something out of it.

I'd love to see the look on your face after said judge ruled you couldn't cast a hold spell on the BBEG, on account of your being in a phone booth.

I'd love to see the look on my face, too. However, since most tournaments use the actual targetting and spellcasting rules, that probably won't ever happen.

Like I said, feel free to do whatever in your games, though.

 

[hong]

Don't be sorry; my reading comprehension skills are just fine.

Can I quote you on that?

It's something called 'context'.

Context: Ratama is pig-ignorant of the rules, but doesn't like admitting it in front of 6,000 other geeks. The degree of familiarity that Ratama has with this situation is left as an exercise for the lurker.

This is a helpful hint for everyone, not just Hong; if people are using windows for cover from targetted spells IYC, you might want to reexamine your interpretation of Line of Effect and Line of Sight.

Why?

You can camp this thread and yammer at your screen all day, if it makes you feel better; I hope you get something out of it.

That's the WORST attempt to get the last word I've ever seen.

I'd love to see the look on my face, too. However, since most tournaments use the actual targetting and spellcasting rules, that probably won't ever happen.

Can I quote you on that too?

 

[IceBear]

I just looked over the rules in the d20 Modern SRD and, as much as I don't like it, the window would stop the Hold spell.

IceBear

 

[hong]

I just looked over the rules in the d20 Modern SRD and, as much as I don't like it, the window would stop the Hold spell.

Two things:

- The examples that started this thread were mostly about D&D, as opposed to d20M, which Ratama introduced basically to obfuscate matters.

- The LoE rules as they stand are actually _good_, from a game balance point of view, even in d20M. Consider the situation where you have a mage behind cover, with a pane of bulletproof glass to allow observation. If you could cast targeted spells in such a situation, said mage could be effectively immune to all physical attacks, and could just keep throwing hold spells with impunity. The current rules at least require the mage to put himself at some degree of risk, if he wants to target anybody. This is probably a far more relevant scenario than Ratama's contrived "bubble boy" example.

 

[IceBear]

True. I'd still like breakable glass to not be an impedement to Hold spells (and their ilk), but I can see the issue.

IceBear

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Hong's right: you have to have a line of effect to the target of the spell, or the origin the effect will start from, so you're safe behind the window.

But it would be OK as a house rule.

Also, an opening the size of a square foot will make a whole 5-foot length of the barrier pervious (and opening the door of the phone booth might just be enough, even if it's just a crack).

 

[CRGreathouse]

I have to agree with Blackbart - area spells don't require line of sight, but do require line of effect; targetted spells require both.

The closed window would block line of effect, and thus would foil the spell.

What part of "A line of effect is cancelled by a solid barrier" do you have trouble understanding?

I agree with BlackBart, Hypersmurf, Piratecat, and hong.

Also, an opening the size of a square foot will make a whole 5-foot length of the barrier pervious (and opening the door of the phone booth might just be enough, even if it's just a crack).

As long as the crack is ~2 inches wide or more, you're cool.

I'd love to see the look on your face after a judge's ruling at a convention if you tried to tell him that being in a phone booth made you proof against the BBEG's Hold spell.

I'd like to note that Piratecat, above, *is* an RPGA judge -- named the top DM for the last three years, as I recall. He knows what he's talking about.