Buckler Question

[dreaded_beast]

Thanks everyone! Very informative.

I'm leaning towards "no", but I'll probably let my player keep the AC bonus just to keep him happy, heh.

I'll probably research the FAQ too.

 

[shilsen]

Improved Buckler Defense: "When you attack with a weapon in your off hand, you may still apply your buckler´s shield bonus to your AC."

Buckler: "In any case, if you use a weapon in your off hand, you don’t get the buckler’s AC bonus for the rest of the round."

So either:

a/ 'a two-handed weapon' is not 'a weapon in your off hand', in which case the feat does not apply, but the buckler description does not cause you to lose your AC bonus anyway,

or

b/ 'a two-handed weapon' is 'a weapon in your off hand', in which case using a two-handed weapon causes you to lose the buckler bonus, but the feat permits you to retain it.

In either case, someone with a two-handed weapon and IBD retains his shield bonus. In case a/, he retains it even without the feat.

-Hyp.

I know one should never have a semantic argument with Hyp (kinda like never having a land war in Asia ), but here goes:

I was making a distinction between a two-handed weapon and a light/one-handed weapon used in one's off hand, with regard to what counts as an off-hand weapon. A two-handed weapon is used in the off hand (and the...um, on hand too), but it doesn't count as an off-hand weapon, whereas a light/one-handed weapon used in one's off hand does.

Since the description of the feat (first line, not the the "Benefit:" section) says "You can attack with an off-hand weapon while retaining a buckler's shield bonus to your Armor class", I'd say it applies only to off-hand weapons and not to two-handers.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Since the description of the feat (first line, not the the "Benefit:" section) says "You can attack with an off-hand weapon while retaining a buckler's shield bonus to your Armor class", I'd say it applies only to off-hand weapons and not to two-handers.

Then you start getting into the distinction between the mechanics of the feat, and the descriptive text.

Cleave mentions "powerful blows" in the descriptive text. I could roll a 1 on the damage with my silver greataxe, -1 for silver, +1 for 13 Strength, for a grand total of 1 damage. The bare minimum for any attack.

If that is sufficient to drop the opponent, can I Cleave (as described in the Benefit section)? Or can I not, since it isn't a 'powerful blow'?

-Hyp.

 

[Squire James]

Only if the 1 point is scored by an arrow shot, in which case you can whack someone else with the bow (at the same attack bonus as your bow shot, according to the RAW). The Cleave feat failed to mention it had to be a melee attack that put the opponent down...

 

[Squire James]

To actually answer the topic, the buckler description fails to adequately explain (one way or the other) whether the AC bonus applies when a two-handed weapon is used. So the answer has to be "whatever the DM thinks makes sense."

I can only tell you what makes sense to me. I can't see how swinging a 2-H weapon would allow a shield to work any better than swinging 2 weapons would. So I would say no AC bonus applies. 2-H weapon wielders have enough advantages in 3.5e without adding the actual ability to use a shield! Make him buy one of those silly-looking Animated Shields like everyone else!

 

[Darklone]

Only if the 1 point is scored by an arrow shot, in which case you can whack someone else with the bow (at the same attack bonus as your bow shot, according to the RAW). The Cleave feat failed to mention it had to be a melee attack that put the opponent down...

CLEAVE [GENERAL]
Prerequisites: Str 13, Power Attack.
Benefit: If you deal a creature enough damage to make it drop (typically by dropping it to below 0 hit points or killing it), you get an immediate, extra melee attack against another creature within reach. You cannot take a 5-foot step before making this extra attack. The extra attack is with the same weapon and at the same bonus as the attack that dropped the previous creature. You can use this ability once per round.
Special: A fighter may select Cleave as one of his fighter bonus feats.

Well right. If you shoot someone with a bow while you have someone within reach of the quickdrawed sword in your right hand... doesn't work for great cleave though.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Well right. If you shoot someone with a bow while you have someone within reach of the quickdrawed sword in your right hand...

Hmm? "With the same weapon"...

-Hyp.

 

[silentspace]

To actually answer the topic, the buckler description fails to adequately explain (one way or the other) whether the AC bonus applies when a two-handed weapon is used. So the answer has to be "whatever the DM thinks makes sense."

I can only tell you what makes sense to me. I can't see how swinging a 2-H weapon would allow a shield to work any better than swinging 2 weapons would. So I would say no AC bonus applies. 2-H weapon wielders have enough advantages in 3.5e without adding the actual ability to use a shield! Make him buy one of those silly-looking Animated Shields like everyone else!

It says no AC bonus applies in the buckler description.

 

[Darklone]

Hmm? "With the same weapon"...

-Hyp.

Uhm ok

Bladebow?

 

[shilsen]

Then you start getting into the distinction between the mechanics of the feat, and the descriptive text.

True. I just tend to look at the descriptive section as an indication of the way the feat is intended to work and, if there's any ambiguity in the mechanic section, use it as a guideline. Except if the descriptive section is clearly wrong, of course