Buff, Scry, Teleport... A problem or not?

Small addition... funny thing was, when the party Wizard was scrying on the Dark Elf (who is very rarely scry-able (using Mind Blank mostly, but deliberately dropped it for the trap), but had been successfully scryed upon already, so he used a lot of spells on Greater Scrying and tried once every two hours or so), he actually thought about False Vision after a while (when the Dark Elf didn't seem to notice... or care about the Scrying attempt), the player grabbed the PHB and looked it up, and discarded the thought, since the duration of False Vision is rather low (not hours or days), and the Dark Elf could not know when he was scrying, of course (he didn't think about Contingency, hehehe).

That's one of those moments, you really need a good poker face as a DM to not give any unwanted clues! ;)

Bye
Thanee
 

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Oh, i know this.


Players are preparing their spells for an upcoming fight with an white dragon.

Player 1: "Hey, maybe this won´t be an white dragon, but a dragon who used a spell to change its color?"

Other Players: "HA HA HA, good joke and now prepare your fireballs...."

In reality it was a copper dragon who used alter self to apper as white so mages would throw fire spell at him. It was a nice battle :D
Some players seem to have an 6th sense for unusual traps.
 
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[vent/side track]Yeah. My players must hate me though. When something like that happens they act like I'm deliberately out to get them.

Just yesterday they encountered a shapeshifter who was impersonating a long lost friend of theirs. Unfortunately, they knew the current state of said friend and thus didn't believe he was who he claimed to be. He beat feet when they drew steel, made it around a corner and changed form to exit stage left. But one of the party was airborn and saw his little stunt, pursued him, then proceed to smack him for 1/4 of his hit points.

Delaying tactics ensued but after another hit, he could tell he was going to die. Being undead, he didn't particularly like the thought of losing his eternal lifespan, so he played possum. Another tremendous blow rocked him and he rolled with it and hit the ground. I had him assume the form of a human they were suspicious of as he hit the ground.

They poked and prodded his undead body, noted he wasn't breathing, and tried to decide what to do with him. One of them even mentioned that shape changers normally assume their natural forms and another player knew what their natural form was, but the party eventually just glossed over it and tossed the body into a portable hole to torch latter.

The shapechanger made a cut in the hole and was lost forever but remained alive.

Afterwards one player took it in stride and RP'd his characters reaction while three others jumped out of character and raged at me with all sorts or reinterpretations of things they meant to say or meant to do. Dirty looks ensued and feeling guilty already about the way things were I was about an inch away from throwing consequences out the door and rolling back the clock for them.

But what fun is a world without consequences? Where the world can't affect the pc's and the pc's can't effect them? So once again I'm a despised DM. I need to figure out PC's and DDog's trick wherein something bad will happen and a fondly uttered "Ratbastard DM" phrase will be uttered instead of a string of profanities. :)[/end vent/side track]
 
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Jeremy:

The secret is to have trust between you and your players, and to be friends ouside of the game. I am always pulling ratbastard stunts on my players' characters. They know it, they constantly call me a "Killer DM" but they keep coming back.

I always run published adventures except when my party goes off the track and I have to improvise, which is fairly often. I will frequently modify those adventures though, because I have two players who are also DMs, and have read practically every adventure I have read. However, I usually remove some obstacles and add new ones. In the end the adventures generally become a bit more deadly, but the rewards increase as well.

If you aren't friends outside of gaming, so that the players have no way of knowing that you actually like them, then sometimes they may start to wonder if you're just a bastard.

Then again, I have no idea of your current situation, I just wanted to type a little bit to brag about how good my game's group is. :) But I hope some of this helps. If you aren't already friends socially, invite the rest of the group over to watch some movies or something.
 

If only it were so easy. :) The gamers are all friends and family in our group. 5-7 years. Just don't trust me as a DM yet I guess.

Having 5/8's of the group being DM's at some point or other in different campaigns also complicates matters.
 

One possible solution would be to sleep in Darkness. Or under a dark tent, filled with people and equipment so there is no room to Teleport in.

But then you open yourself up to any wandering monster who might throw an area attack your way.

Hmmm... if Scry doesn't reveal a very large area, you could get a whole bunch of stakes or spears, place them in every 5' square around your encampment, making sure that there isn't any place for anyone to teleport in.
 

My campaign is just hitting 9th/10th level and doesn't have any pure wizards, so I've seen the Scry side but not the Teleport side. I created a house rule for Scry which also (hopefully) addresses the Teleport issue:

Make DC exactly: See and hear target only (no surroundings). Not enough info for teleportation.

Beat by 10+: Vague, limited view of background (objects only, no people). Must study for 10 minutes to Teleport; counts as "Description" (longer or repeated viewings do not improve this).

Beat by 20+: Detailed view of background and people. Must study for 10 minutes to Teleport; counts as "viewed once" (can improve to "seen casually" with longer or repeated viewings).

Beat by 30+: Detailed view, can move sensor (once per minute) with another roll at +30 DC. Teleport as above, but can be improved to "studied carefully" with longer or repeated viewings.

Hopefully, this discourages casual use of BST: someone who spots a scry sensor has 10 minutes to dispel it, prepare, flee, etc. It does not address the issue of BST against strongholds; I'll probably use the Mordenkainen spell or something similar as a standard defense.
 

sorry my last post was very poorly typed.


Have any players or DMs seen the use of B/S/T to teleport in during a combat already under way?
 

This became a problem in my last Dark Sun campaign that just ended. (The PCs did it several times to NPCs and the NPCs returned the favor to them.) One of the cheap solutions I came up with is that nothing in the teleport description says that the spell displaces matter in the way of the incoming teleport.

Eventually the PCs started running into NPCs who filled the room with streamers hanging from the ceiling, or string strategically strung throughout the room. Sand and water work well if you are protecting something that you don't need to use often. Of course this doesn't work well in rooms that are in use. My NPCs also used "white noise" effects such as waterfalls to make hearing through clairaudience and scrying difficult.

I also borrowed the old 2e bit about heavy metals, thick stone and energy emissions blocking some divinations and teleportation and extended this to most divinations and all teleportation. My PCs were fine with this because it gave them simple cheap protection too.

Another solution I use in all of my campaigns is to attack the scry sensor. I ruled long ago that any spell that creates a magical sensor forms a conduit to your own senses opens you to attack through the sensor. (I remembered this from Planescape). The sensor is treated as an incorporeal magical construct that has 1hp per caster level. Any damage to the sensor translates to damage to the scry focus device and to the caster.

Before I started my current Rokugan campaign I also made some house-rule changes to teleport by limiting its range to 5 miles per caster level (10 miles for Teleport without Error and Teleport Circle). Additionally, I changed all scry and clairvoyance and locater type spells with formerly unlimited range to 5 miles per caster level (Greater scrying and Discern Location are 10 miles per level).

Another trick that works well is to without limiting teleportation too much make teleport work Star Trek-style in that the re-matierialization is slow (i.e. a full-round to materialize.) This makes it dangerous to pop-in on someone because they have time to strike you flat-footed before you are fully phased-in.

Lastly, I used and created a small host of spells and magic items in my old campaigns that protected against teleportation. (Allowing attacks on the scry sensor proved to be more than sufficient protection against scrying.)

1. Dimensional wards: (Magic Item) you need a minimum of three of these wondrous items to form a bounded space. Once activated, dimensional travel into, out of, or within that space is impossible. The wards can be de-activated at a touch, moved, and re-activated again if the owner chooses. I also have a 5th lvl spell of the same name and effects that lasts 1 day per level. (This was my comversion of a 2e planescape item.)

2. Teleport Scramble:(5th lvl spell) This ward causes all incoming teleportation effects to behave as a teleport spell with the worst possible result (i.e. as if teleporting to a place that doesn't exist.) It lasts a day per caster level.

3. Redirect Teleport: (6th lvl spell) This ward allows the caster to set the arrival location and orientation of any incoming teleport effect. The location and orientation is set when the spell is cast and cannot be changed. The spell lasts a day per level. (Bad guys in my campaign set the arrival point inside a trapped room, a magma chamber a dungeon or simply someplace far away.)

4. Teleport Scatter: (6th lvl spell) As teleport scramble but breaks up the incoming teleport and scatters EACH creature in the incoming teleport to a different random location. Variants allow only the caster of the teleport spell to arrive safely while all of his companions are scattered.

5. Inter-penetrate: (8th lvl spell): This ward simply causes all teleport effects entering the warded area to arrive in such a way that causes inter-penetration on arrival. All arrivees must succeed at a Fort save or die a grizzly death with their bodies embedded in the ground, floor, wall etc.. If the save is successful the arrivees aren't killed by the interpenetration, take 10d6 points of damage and are expelled into the nearest available open space.

After a couple of prismatic sprays through the scry sensor and a couple of scattered teleports, the PCs learned not stick their scry sensor where it doesn't belong and not to teleport anyplace that they can't verify is safe. I found this to be a workable solution because the PCs could still use teleport to get around if they wanted to, but they took their chances if they tried to launch a teleport attack on the evil overlord's fortress.

Tzarevitch
 

Another "core rules" bit of anti-scry technology, swiped from P-kitty, and slightly expanded:

Invest in a hat of disguise. Use it to always appear to be someone else, especially when attacking someone. If you'd rather not have some poor sap as your patsy, just appear as an "average" human for your entire adventuring career. Or maybe appear as a hero from long ago.......(now conveniently dead and forgotten).

IOW: It seems the scry spell might be interpreted as needing a "likeness" or physical description to work. So....what if no one's ever seen your true likeness or can't describe you properly? Can you be scryed?

Even the "None" category presumably needs at least a name........just go around calling yourself "John".

Dunno.

If you think this is pretty lame and quite a stretch for the core rules, think about some of our "modern" heroes that relied on false hero identities to be able to good: Zorro, Batman, Superman, etc.........
 

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