D&D 5E Building a better Cleric

If I was starting from scratch I would mix the cleric, paladin, and warlock into a blender and get out 1 or 2 "channel outsider" classes (I lean towards 2 classes, 1 primary caster and 1 primary melee). That seems appropriately Pentecostal.
Agreed.

IMO: It would make more sense for a divine class to channel power more consistently, (short-rest and at-will), rather than only being able to bless someone a few times per day. Your not going to exhaust your source of power. I would also call it a "Channeler".

Though I think fighter could take most of paladin, fueled by the power of determination.
 

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Agreed.

IMO: It would make more sense for a divine class to channel power more consistently, (short-rest and at-will), rather than only being able to bless someone a few times per day. Your not going to exhaust your source of power. I would also call it a "Channeler".

Though I think fighter could take most of paladin, fueled by the power of determination.

I have honestly been surprised there hasn't been a divine version the eldritch knight: your weapon counts as magic for purposes of overcoming resistances/immunities, 1-4 cleric spell casting, and some sequence of advantage saving against charm and illusion spells/proficiency with wisdom saving throws. It seems like that could give a nice holy warrior (and a real terror to fiends) while leaving the paladin the inspirational gimmick.
 

Haven't read through all the posts, so excusame if mentioned previously.

I dig the Cleric overall, but the War Priest kind of makes the Champion Fighter seem lame/boring, Especially at high- 14-ish- levels. I like the class- it reminds me somewhat of the Essentials Clerics, but I noticed my player with a Champion Fighter felt like his toes were being stepped on/felt inferior.
 


I'd be fine keeping it standard action if they upped the HP to 2d8/level or something.

That would be WAY too strong. You'd make it twice as strong single-target as Prayer of Healing, which takes 10 minutes to cast. Can't do that.

I'd give Cure Wounds some range, leave it standard action and leave the numbers as they are. That's all it needs or deserves.
 

Haven't read through all the posts, so excusame if mentioned previously.

I dig the Cleric overall, but the War Priest kind of makes the Champion Fighter seem lame/boring, Especially at high- 14-ish- levels. I like the class- it reminds me somewhat of the Essentials Clerics, but I noticed my player with a Champion Fighter felt like his toes were being stepped on/felt inferior.
A Fighter, even a Champion, should be considerably outdamaging a War Cleric at 14th level.
 

I've always been a fan of clerics, at least once I got past the whole religious aspect. From a mechanical standpoint, the character who can heal damage and remove afflictions has always been pretty important. They've usually been a fair balance between martial and casting, too, since they could wield some decent weapons and had enough armor to actually wade into melee. Unlike the wizard, who was great whenever the situation warranted spending a spell slot but was otherwise just taking up space, the cleric could make a meaningful contribution every round without spending any resources to do so.

The 5E cleric has been a bit of a disappointment, mostly because the system got rid of the constraints which they were designed to overcome. Healing magic is kind of lame in a world where everyone can heal for 150% of their total HP everyday without even resorting to magic, and even significant afflictions can be healed naturally with a little downtime. Their martial prowess - previously second only to fighters - is now superfluous in the face of infinite cantrips and all of their many spell slots which are no longer needed for healing. Mechanically speaking, in terms of resource management and round-by-round decision making, a cleric is really just a wizard with a slightly different spell list.

If I was going to re-design the cleric for 5E, without overhauling the core game mechanics by removing Hit Dice entirely, then I would start by severely cutting their spellcasting and significantly boosting their Divine Strike feature. Give them fewer spells per day, get rid of half of their spell list, and let them add their Wisdom bonus to each extra damage die from Divine Strike.
 

A Fighter, even a Champion, should be considerably outdamaging a War Cleric at 14th level.

I did not specifically state damage was the issue. Though the difference is not huge between the 5 extra bonus attacks per day, the +10 add a couple times per short rest, 2d8 extra radiant damage per round, and then throw spellcasting on top of it. When combat is a few rounds, it is less of a disparity.

One battle in particular they mixed it up with a Marilith and the Warpriest was the star of the show except when he was grappled. There he had some issue trying to make that save to pop free. Whereas the Champion got out of that easily a couple times.

I realize some people feel the Champion Fighter is flawed, but I have not seen it to be glaring until this point with the War Priest. IMO your basic great weapon fighter should be head and shoulders over any class in a melee.
 


If it's lame/boring (compared to a level 14 full caster!), it's by popular demand, not flawed design.

I understand what you are saying. For my tastes, Its one of the "2 steps back" from 4e , that 5e has taken.

I also have not had the issue in OD&D. But the Fighter gets perks, and Cleric spells are very different in scope.
 

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