Building a better sorcerer

[Ronin72]

This is my GM's Alt. Sorcerer build and I have played it too pretty high levels my self and found it to be quite balanced and enjoyable....it gives the Sorc. allot more flavor as a class.

 

[irdeggman]

I agree with Thanee's question (having found my sorcerers to be extraordinarily strong characters in the party - and that is with avoiding the typical 'best' sorcerer spells to boot!)

I also agree with this question.

Most of the posts I have seen indicate that the sorcerer is very powerful and definitely not a "weak" class.

Now I do think the class is kind of boring in that the only class ability is has is spells, but I also feel the same about clerics - nothing gained (but spells) as levels increase.

This does not mean they are "weak", just sort of bland for a class design.

 

[Archade]

I've been having an ongoing theoretical argument with one of my players whether the sorcerer is underpowered or not. He's running a side game that I have agreed to play a Sorcerer in to put it to the test.

However, in our games, I allow Eschew Materials as a bonus feat at 1st level. Having seen the Heritage feats out of Dragon Compendium vol 1, I'd almost be tempted to hand one of those out at 1st level, instead of getting a familiar, but I am refraining on the side of caution right now ...

 

[Infiniti2000]

I also agree they are not weak.

I also agree with irdeggman that they are bland. Every sorcerer build I have ever seen uses the same subset of spells, including polymorph, enervation, black tentacles, etc. In rare cases, some of these are not used, but most of the time they are. This does mean, however, that the class needs work, or perhaps the magic system, or perhaps all of the spells.

 

[Nebulous]

This does mean, however, that the class needs work, or perhaps the magic system, or perhaps all of the spells.

Play an Arcana Evolved magister. It is much more fun than an old vanilla sorcerer. New spells, new magic system, and it's all sorta familiar.

 

[Kerrick]

I agree with Thanee's question (having found my sorcerers to be extraordinarily strong characters in the party - and that is with avoiding the typical 'best' sorcerer spells to boot!)

Weird.. this is (I believe) the first time I've seen anyone say that sorcerers were powerful. Everything else I've seen (class comparisons, player testimonials, and even a breakdown of the classes by points) showed the sorcerer to be weak, on this board and others. Someone on another board, though, said that most people don't play the sorcerer to its full potential...

This does not mean they are "weak", just sort of bland for a class design.

All right... part of the reason I started this was to make a sorcerer that was not a "wizard who spontaneously casts spells." Clerics are kind of the same way as far as blandness, but they at least get turning/rebuking undead and domain spells; a sorcerer is just a spontaneous spellslinger. I want to make them unique - the druid is a divine caster, but it's totally different from the cleric; why aren't sorcerers and wizards the same way? Why do they have the exact same spell list?

I have altered spellcasting into a Spellcasting check which is made by rolling a d20 and adding your Caster Level and your spellcasting Ability Score modifier. The DC is 10 plus twice the spell level + any Spell Burn [Spell Burn is accumulated at a rate of one point for each spell previously cast]. Failing a Spellcasting check results in a Fortitude Saving Throw to resist becoming Fatigued, Exhausted, or Unconscious.

Interesting. We use something called arcane burn, where if you fail a Concentration check to cast or maintain a spell, you have to make a Fort save to avoid taking magical backlash damage, and you run the risk of having the spell slot burned out. Your version goes back to the spellcasting from novels, where it actually wears you down. When I was thinking about this last night, I was actually considering some kind of Constitution check after casting a large number of spells (it was kind of vague and half-formed). Do you lose spell burn with a short rest (like sitting down for an hour or so)?

On topic, it seems that you could just grab something like the Eldritch Weaver

http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=162968

I think you summed it up pretty well - it sounds really cool, but it's in a book that I otherwise wouldn't buy. It sounds like it's along the lines of what I was thinking of doing to the sorcerer, though - give them a series of paths or domains or something (another vague, half-formed idea) similar to the warlock.

While I'm on the subject... what does anyone think about giving sorcerers their own spell list, seperate from a wizard? It would be a bit of work, I know, but a new archetype would need its own list.

 

[Ronin72]

Ok, I'm a little confussed, what book would you have to buy to play this, that you dont want to buy?

 

[Land Outcast]

Ok, I'm a little confused, what book would you have to buy to play this, that you dont want to buy?

Seconded

 

[Thanee]

Weird.. this is (I believe) the first time I've seen anyone say that sorcerers were powerful.

I don't think I have seen anyone yet, who actually played a sorcerer over a longer time with a decent spell selection, who claimed the class was not powerful.

I'm fairly sure, that the majority of the people, who think the sorcerer is a weak class, have not played the class to its strengths.

I can surely understand, when people say the class is somewhat bland, which is certainly true, and not what they would like to see. Many prefer something like the warlock, or the warmage.

My changes to the class are very minor and only really affect secondary traits, giving them Eschew Materials for free, 4 skill points per level and more class skills. I had also considered giving them a bonus metamagic or draconic feat every 5 levels.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Kerrick]

Ok, I'm a little confussed, what book would you have to buy to play this, that you dont want to buy?

Oops, sorry.. I quoted you instead of Plane with his link to the Eldritch Weaver. I fixed that post, and I will check yours out and comment on it.

My changes to the class are very minor and only really affect secondary traits, giving them Eschew Materials for free, 4 skill points per level and more class skills. I had also considered giving them a bonus metamagic or draconic feat every 5 levels.

That's pretty much what we've done with it.. gave them Cha-based skills, more points, and the bonus metamagic feats (those seem to be popular house rules). I'm also toying with giving them a d6 HD, but only because of some other house rules we use (arcane burn, for one).

I'm fairly sure, that the majority of the people, who think the sorcerer is a weak class, have not played the class to its strengths.

Or they play it like a wizard with spontaneous casting. Disregarding my (apparently uninformed) comment about sorcerers being underpowered, my real intent for this project is to redefine their role. Like I said before, I think they should be a completely separate archetype from the wizard. Like many things WotC did, they had a good concept here, but they dropped the ball, leaving us with a class that has the potential to be something really cool, but falls short.