Building Bucklers!

[Imperialus]

How to kick things off... I've always loved light fighters or fighter/rogue hybrids who rely on speed and mobility to get the job done. I guess it spiced fighters up for me in previous editions. I still love the concept though and am interested in possibly duplicating it in 4th edition.

The 4E rogue possibly fits the bill, especially if I dabble a bit in the fighter powers. I'm also looking at a build centered around the Ranger but I'm not sure which I like more. The Rogue/Fighter is a striker who can also fill a defender role when necessary while the ranger is more of a pure striker.

However there is one thing I need for all the pieces to fall into place, a buckler. Back in 3.X one of my favorite PC's was a light fighter who fought with a longsword and buckler. I optimized the character towards TWF, got shield spikes on the buckler and used it as an off hand weapon that doubled as a shield when I needed it to be.

Here is a writeup I came up with for a buckler in 4E. It uses the weapon table but it can be enchanted either as a shield or a weapon. It's added to the Rogue proficiency list.

Class: Superior (Rangers and Rogues have proficiency)
Damage: 1d4
Price: 5GP
Weight: 2 lb
Group: Light blades (or would mace be better? Or unarmed for that matter?)
Properties: Off hand, Light Can be enchanted as a shield or a weapon.

My logic behind developing it as a weapon rather than a shield is because it always seemed rather redundant as an 'extra' slightly crappier light shield. Historically bucklers were also used much more offensively because they weren't strapped to your arm and you had much more mobility with them. German woodcut fencing manuals for example show people using the buckler almost as much in an attack as the sword. Those same manuals also show that shields are obviously used more for defensive maneuvers or to cover vulnerable areas during attacks than they are as weapons.

The idea behind the buckler is that you develop your character along Two Weapon Fighting lines. The TWD feat gives you the opportunity to use the buckler as a proper shield while the TWF lets it be used offensively. It's ability to be enchanted either as a shield or sword lets you trade offensive power for defensive as you go up in levels.

Anyhow those are my thoughts. What are your's? Crazy, brilliant, both or is this just stupid? See anything that might work better? I still don't have the rules down pat yet (still haven't played) so any input would be appreciated.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Good thinking, but I'd treat it as a bludgeoning weapon unless it's a spiked buckler.

Alternately, for the purely defensive buckler, you could have it provide +1 AC but no bonus to Reflex defense, and it would allow the use of an off-hand weapon for TWF or with a two-handed weapon (but does not provide a defensive bonus when fighting with both weapons, or in a round wher eyou attack with the 2HW).

Probably best discussed in 4E House Rules ...

 

[Wik]

You'd have to state something like "In any particular round, a buckler must serve as either a shield or a weapon". And once you add Two Weapon Defence, you'd be using it as a weapon all the time, because you already have the defence bonus (unless the shield had an AC boost, where it serves a purpose again).

 

[Imperialus]

Probably best discussed in 4E House Rules ...

Oh, crud. It's been a while since I've putzed around ENworld. I forgot all the subforums. Saw 'rules' and posted. If a Mod wants to move this, sorry.

 

[Imperialus]

Alternately, for the purely defensive buckler, you could have it provide +1 AC but no bonus to Reflex defense, and it would allow the use of an off-hand weapon for TWF or with a two-handed weapon (but does not provide a defensive bonus when fighting with both weapons, or in a round wher eyou attack with the 2HW).

Good point. That would account for an archers armguard style bucker rather than one held in the hand (more like the 3.X buckler) and maybe get some more use out of the versatile weapon property.

 

[Imperialus]

You'd have to state something like "In any particular round, a buckler must serve as either a shield or a weapon". And once you add Two Weapon Defence, you'd be using it as a weapon all the time, because you already have the defence bonus (unless the shield had an AC boost, where it serves a purpose again).

But if you make them two different weapons, say the archery buckler can only be used as a shield but it frees up a hand while the swordsman's buckler is primarily a weapon and requires TWD to get an AC bonus out of it.

 

[Nifft]

In my dream homebrew, a buckler is an off-hand weapon that deals Unarmed damage, can be used to execute a weapon block, and is harder to sunder than any other weapon.

In 4e, which has no way to improve unarmed damage, I'd make it a 1d6 one-handed bludgeoning weapon, off-hand, which grants you a +1 shield bonus to AC (stacks with the bonus provided by TWD).

Arrows may be irrelevant, because the bonus from TWD already applies against arrows, and that makes even less sense.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Surgoshan]

If used defensively, I'd have a buckler give a reflex bonus alone rather than an AC bonus.

 

[keterys]

(stacks with the bonus provided by TWD).

Don't like that ruling - makes it so bucklers are more effective than light shields in that respect.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

In my dream homebrew, a buckler is an off-hand weapon that deals Unarmed damage, can be used to execute a weapon block, and is harder to sunder than any other weapon.

In 4e, which has no way to improve unarmed damage, I'd make it a 1d6 one-handed bludgeoning weapon, off-hand, which grants you a +1 shield bonus to AC (stacks with the bonus provided by TWD).

Arrows may be irrelevant, because the bonus from TWD already applies against arrows, and that makes even less sense.

Cheers, -- N

But if you did that (1d6 damage and stacking AC with TWD on all the time), it would be so much better than the majority of off-hand weapons that it needs something else to balance ... I'd recommend a feat for Shield Proficiency (Buckler) which would require Shield Proficiency (Light) and Two-Weapon Fighting (or Defense) ... or make it a Superior Weapon.