Building worlds and campaign settings

[Book of Vile Derp]

I have started working on my own personal world for the next campaign I run, which will likely be in 3-4 years. I'd like to have the world and campaign finished beforehand so I'm making sure I have plenty of time. One question I'm really anxious to have answered is this: if Wizards heard about your world (or whatever other publisher suits your fancy) and decided they wanted to publish it, would you be able to package the whole thing into one of their double column 320 page campaign guides? Would you need it and a few other books (see 3e Dragonlance) or would you need an entire selection of books (See 3e/3.5 Forgotten Realms, with a whopping 17 sourcebooks)? I'm sure there is no set amount of pages needed to properly convey a world, but when I first started making this a few weeks ago, my goal was roughly 200 pages of information, including room to post pics, and package it all as a PDF. Now however, as I do more work, really think about what I want to do, I expect I could need far more than that. So what say you, would 300-500 pages of material sound about right to you, or does this seem more like the high hopes of someone who will likely get burnt out around 50 pages because they've been too ambitious?

 

[Mallus]

300-500 pages sounds... oppressive to me. Way too much.

If Wizards --in an obvious act of early mass corporate senility-- wanted to publish either of my groups settings (which I co-authored), I'd tell 'em I could do the main book in 100 pages or so (or less). My goal would be a relatively short book full of inspirational details, anecdotes, and enough tools/charts/tables to help a DM populate a session quickly.

My setting book wouldn't be an encyclopedia. It wouldn't be an exhaustive (and exhausting) attempt to describe the setting.

 

[Ahnehnois]

Personally I just created a map and some overarching themes for the world, very basic descriptions of the big regions, and made up the details later. These days I've skipped to the last part. World building is fun, but I think it's better to do a few pages well than to try and writing a campaign setting.

 

[Mallus]

Yeah, my advice would be to spend a month or two (tops!) brainstorming & note-making, then start the game. The best way to create a setting is by running a campaign set in it!

 

[Celebrim]

One question I'm really anxious to have answered is this: if Wizards heard about your world (or whatever other publisher suits your fancy) and decided they wanted to publish it, would you be able to package the whole thing into one of their double column 320 page campaign guides?

No.

But on the other hand, I've never formalized things as much as I'd want. There's lots of stuff I know and stuff I invent on the fly based on my general feel for the setting, but I've never tried to write up a campaign guide per se. And much of my high school and college notes on the far flung regions of the world (the interior of the big continent of Sartha, and almost all of its west coast, for example) that I never actually gamed in but only imagined is lost and my memories of those places are rather hazy. If I tried to write a world guide, I'd have to reinvent so much both because I've forgotten so many details and because probably if I did have the notes my sensibilities from that of a 16 year old DM would have changed so much (not that I don't admire the creativity of my 16 year old self, who was in some ways more daring than I am now).

My feeling has always been that it would take about 3-4 such books: one on geography, one on history, a third on religion, and the last to cover unique spells, classes, rules, and other mechanical ecetera.

I'm sure there is no set amount of pages needed to properly convey a world, but when I first started making this a few weeks ago, my goal was roughly 200 pages of information, including room to post pics, and package it all as a PDF. Now however, as I do more work, really think about what I want to do, I expect I could need far more than that.

Once you do start to formalize things, it's always bigger than you think it is. For example, the above estimate is a broad outline that would give only a paragraph of text on most regions of the world, and maybe real detail on only 1 or 2. To really fill things out would probably require another 50-100 100 page supplements detailing the culture and history the of various nations and regions of the world, and what is actually to be found there of interest to an adventurer (or a DM). And even that is a broad overview, the real detail would be provided by the DM's that adopt your setting.

So what say you, would 300-500 pages of material sound about right to you, or does this seem more like the high hopes of someone who will likely get burnt out around 50 pages because they've been too ambitious?

I would say that from a pragmatic standpoint, you are starting in the wrong place. Instead of creating a world guide, I'd start by creating a village or town guide. You only need as much big picture as informs your specific setting. After that, start pouring your details into the place you want things to happen - a rural setting or a small city state is a good place to start. Then grow that area as needed as the PC's grow and explore. It would take devoting your whole life to world building to really complete a world guide, especially if it wasn't your job and you weren't getting paid to do it 40+ hours a week.

 

[delericho]

The last time I wrote up a 'complete' setting (which was some years ago), I used a three-document arrangement, adapted from that used by WotC's own setting search contest.

The first document was a one-page digest of key facts about the setting - what makes it unique, who the heroes are, etc.

The second document was a 10- to 20-page document giving any new rules associated with the setting - new races or classes, new feats or spells, new magic items, any "setting rules" (essentially house rules that I would apply to any game set there). I deliberately tried not to let this get too long.

And the third and final document was a 100-page setting bible, that detailed the setting itself. The chapters were split along the same lines as the 3e Forgotten Realms book (which remains the best one-book setting I've seen).

Now, it's perhaps worth noting that if I were creating a setting now, I would make it much shorter, both because I wouldn't go into anything like the same level of detail up-front, and also because I wouldn't try to create a whole world for use, but just a starter area (region, kingdom, whatever).

 

[SirAntoine]

There are two ways to go about it. First, think about what will practically SELL YOUR WORLD, and provide for that as well as you possibly can in your designs. Unless one thing that you feel will sell your world is it's size or completeness, you don't need to provide either in massive quantity. The things that will help carve your setting a niche should be your focus. If you feel you have like "the best view of a large and completely detailed setting" there could be, maybe you could establish your world that way in the market. Many DM's could want that, and others will want the different, shorter materials that are possible. In approaching WotC, you should also be able to pitch what your setting has to offer in such terms, in a 1-2 page query letter. I don't know that WotC is looking to buy a new setting, but you might intrigue someone. Someday they may do another contest like the one that brought the world Eberron, and if your setting is ready you can pitch it to them then. There are also other companies that may be interested, or you can try to self-publish. Keeping it small, also, will cut down costs, especially with respect to how much art you'll include.

 

[Stormonu]

Ugh, my own campaign world clocks in at 405 pages, with no game rules, nor more than a paragraph blurb on the gods (that's been an ongoing rewrite, at close to 50 pages by itself).From my experience, and others have been saying, it's better to start with just a small area and have some overarching ideas about the bigger world. As you play, you can fill in the additional details - that was actually how a good portion of my campaign world ended up developing. I started with a continent map with a bunch of names, plopped the players down in a little village in one of the countries, and starting filling in outward.