Bull Rush
- Thread starter Naszir
- Start date
I don't really see the need for it.
Last night I bullrushed a chaladin for 2d10 (16) off a cliff into some water. If not for feystep, he would have had a hard time with those swimming and climbing checks.
Before that, I bull rushed another player during a gameday down a 6d10 hole. Even gave him 3 saves, one for the initial fall, another to grab the arm of a guy who'd i'd dominated down into the whole prior to him, but had caught a ledge 40 ft down, and a 3rd save to catch his own ledge. Thankfully, the damage was low, but the rest of team was hurting with 2 ppl out of combat.
I've bull rushed players off of boats into the waiting jaws of weresharks, or just off the boat and out of combat. Pushed off bridges into strongly flowing rivers, forcing swim and endurance checks, also forcing the party to venture downstream to find him.
Had a horde of minions (10) bullrush chage a paladin 5 sqaures onto a teleport circle that the big bad activated to zap him out of combat.
Bull rushed a rogue into the path of an oncoming boulder... A warlock off an airship... a cleric into a gelatinous cube pit trap... warlord into a sewage pit... barbarian into a brazier and set him on fire... the list goes on.
If all you have to work with is flat terrain, you need to tell your DM you want some elevation changes to play with, otherwise, look for need things to do to get players or monsters out of combat. Also realize, if the players start adding fancy stuff to thier bull rushes, so will the DM
Last night I bullrushed a chaladin for 2d10 (16) off a cliff into some water. If not for feystep, he would have had a hard time with those swimming and climbing checks.
Before that, I bull rushed another player during a gameday down a 6d10 hole. Even gave him 3 saves, one for the initial fall, another to grab the arm of a guy who'd i'd dominated down into the whole prior to him, but had caught a ledge 40 ft down, and a 3rd save to catch his own ledge. Thankfully, the damage was low, but the rest of team was hurting with 2 ppl out of combat.
I've bull rushed players off of boats into the waiting jaws of weresharks, or just off the boat and out of combat. Pushed off bridges into strongly flowing rivers, forcing swim and endurance checks, also forcing the party to venture downstream to find him.
Had a horde of minions (10) bullrush chage a paladin 5 sqaures onto a teleport circle that the big bad activated to zap him out of combat.
Bull rushed a rogue into the path of an oncoming boulder... A warlock off an airship... a cleric into a gelatinous cube pit trap... warlord into a sewage pit... barbarian into a brazier and set him on fire... the list goes on.
If all you have to work with is flat terrain, you need to tell your DM you want some elevation changes to play with, otherwise, look for need things to do to get players or monsters out of combat. Also realize, if the players start adding fancy stuff to thier bull rushes, so will the DM
But notice, Jimmifett, you're the dm. I'd like to see players using Bull Rush, but up against using just at-wills, players are loathe to give up their standard actions (see #4) save for extremely specific circumstances. Also, its not particularly viable unless you specialize in bull rushing via several feats and items. And its still not that great!
My problems with Bull Rush -
1. no proper scaling to hit (even with the specialized feat; I say level+3 and be done with it)
2. no damage (str or dex mod sound about right)
3. one square push (items help, and there's a feat, but I'd like just one more square.)
4. should be a move action (probably the most needed change in my eyes)
Been thinking about a houserule allowing it as a standard action (level +3 to hit) and above damage mod, or as a move action with no damage added, and the rush only costing 2 squares of your movement, but you cannot shift into vacated space of the target. (note you could still move the remainder of your movement.)
My problems with Bull Rush -
1. no proper scaling to hit (even with the specialized feat; I say level+3 and be done with it)
2. no damage (str or dex mod sound about right)
3. one square push (items help, and there's a feat, but I'd like just one more square.)
4. should be a move action (probably the most needed change in my eyes)
Been thinking about a houserule allowing it as a standard action (level +3 to hit) and above damage mod, or as a move action with no damage added, and the rush only costing 2 squares of your movement, but you cannot shift into vacated space of the target. (note you could still move the remainder of your movement.)
the Jester
Legend
This is the real problem imho. Nobody can hit with a bull rush once they're above about 5th level!
I certainly don't agree with the idea of making it a move action; in the right circumstances, it is certainly worth giving up your standard to push an enemy (off a cliff, into a pit of acid, into a big fire, onto those spikes over there, etc).
I use it as a player too. I just wait until the opportune time to use it based on the situation. Usually it's based on terrain, but in some circumstances, I can use it to break a grab if no other player has a way to do forced movement. Perhaps it could be slightly better scaled, but I'm fine how it is. It's a trade off mechanic just like aid attack or full defense or run. It's your game naturally, but if players aren't using it, perhaps the encounters need adjusted to create attractive opportunities to use it. Fights on rope bridges or narrow ledges etc.
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