Burst Fire function/Burst Fire feat

[jonrog1]

Okay, I actually posted last over in the autofire thread, but this is where this goes I think.

The trick is WOTC's use of the word "burst fire" as a type of attack rather than an actual weapon setting. Confuses the issue.

(All the following is OGC, and only quoted in context of the OGL and not for profit.)

I'm thinking of using:

SUPPRESSIVE FIRE: as in Dragonstar, the idea being that it's just a more tactical use of the following term ...

AUTOFIRE: used as in D20Modern.

"Burst" redefined in the Spycraft way: Narrow burst uses 3 shots, gives a +1 to attack, no extra damage -- the idea being you're using the increased number of shots to make it more likely to score a hit.

Wide Burst uses 3 shots, -3 to attack but +2 damage, taking advantage of the superior firepower you're putting out but with some payment in accuracy.

BURST FIRE redifined in some way. I like the Invader Zim-like: "Have Some of THIS!" where attacks are -4 and the damage is +2 DIE, but the feat basically implies the training required to really unload a full, controlled burst right into one target's teeth, taking full advantage of the "Burst" setting in a way that untrained people cannot.

I'll probably tweak the Wide Burst a bit, but I think this may be one way of showing that anyone can use a weapon on "Burst" setting, but only highy trained types can take full advantage of it.

The "Burst" concept in Dragonstar and the "Autofire" concept in Spycraft are virtually the same and pretty good ideas, but I'm basing this mechanic on a desire to blend with D20Modern.

Of course, you'd want to use suppressive fire (renamed to "Keep Their Heads Down"), cover fire, aiming and bracing from Spycraft.

If I could just tweak those Spycraft classes so they weren't tied to the Spy genre, it'd be close to a perfect system ...

 

[Khur]

Burst

From what I understand, the military doesn't use bursts for increased damage or accuracy (that is, chance to hit). Yet both seem to be a probable outcome, if you are on target. Am I right?

 

[IronWulffe]

Reasons for burst

The military uses burst fire so that fewer people are reloading at the same time. In full auto everyone's clips empty at the same time, with semi auto or burst the delay between shots (or groups of shots) varies individual to individual, therefore reducing the time in which fire is NOT being directed towords the target(s).

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

But the real reason that full auto and burst fire are there AT ALL is to put more lead down-range, right?

I house-ruled that untrained folks using a full-auto or 3-round burst-limited weapon could expend the extra ammo (5 and 3, respectively) to get a +2 to their attack rolls. This, for me, models that you're putting more bullets down-range in the hopes of HITTING somebody. Not tossing five, six, seven bullets into one guy, but catching a moving target with one of those bullets.

Otherwise it was pointless to use, say, an MP5 instead of a Glock 17. You have no greater chance of hitting anything, even though you're burning 3 bullets to the one.

For my game, at least, the players usually see it as a trade-off. Handgun they can carry around ... SMG they can better use covering fire and bursts to attempt to pin down and/or engage the target. They're investigators, not army personell.

That and I don't like the fact that, as written, you're a total schmuck with an SMG untill you get Burst Fire as a feat, then you're suddenly John Rambo putting three bullets in everything you aim at.

--fje

 

[ragboy]

But the real reason that full auto and burst fire are there AT ALL is to put more lead down-range, right?

I house-ruled that untrained folks using a full-auto or 3-round burst-limited weapon could expend the extra ammo (5 and 3, respectively) to get a +2 to their attack rolls. This, for me, models that you're putting more bullets down-range in the hopes of HITTING somebody. Not tossing five, six, seven bullets into one guy, but catching a moving target with one of those bullets.

Funny, I came to the board today looking for homebrew/mods to the Modern auto/burst rules and here it is, right at the top...

Actually, burst firing is less accurate than single firing, overall, even with more lead down range. But, it's the least inaccurate multi-fire mode. Autofire is extremely inaccurate Wastes lead and gets little return, unless you're covering/suppressing. (I'm talking hand-held weapons, not crew-served. The M240 and the M2HB on an M1A1 can put a belt of rounds in a very nice pattern at obscenely long ranges).

To be 'realistic,' single shot should have no changes, burst firing should incur a slight penalty after the first shot, and auto should incur big penalties after the first three shots. Everyone's first shot should not be penalized for a regular attack (i.e. not engaging in covering/suppressing fire). Of course, that's a level of detail that could bog a game down quickly.

All of these can be mitigated by bracing, using two hands (in the case of handguns), using a bipod/tripod for long arms, and aiming.

I'm still leaning toward Dragonstar with V for Victory's suppressing/covering fire and Spycraft's bracing/aiming rules. Just haven't played enough modern to know how it all comes together.