But I don't wanna stay this way forever! Transform seed in the ELH.

[Thistleknot]

I was looking over the transform seed in the ELH, and it has Duration: Permanent.

In the section on epic spell factors, there is no spellcraft modifier for reducing the duration from Permanent to some other non-permanent duration. I for one, think they need one.

What would be an appropriate reduction to the Spellcraft DC to change that seed from permanent to a level dependent duration, say 1 round/level or 1 hour/level?

I was considering dividing the spellcraft DC by 5, since you multiply it by 5 to make something permanent that isn't already permanent. But that still doesn't seem right somehow, because that can drop the spellcraft DC really low.

I'm not entirely sure that I want my NPC spellcaster to be able to morph his fighter cohort into an Adamantine Golem (with all of it's abilities!) with a Spellcraft DC of 34. (Spellcraft DC 166 / 5 rounded up.)

As soon as the spellcasters in the party see this trick, I'm sure they're going to want to do something similar, and I want to have all my rules laid out and solid before this happens.

Are there any helpful ideas? Does this seem right to everyone else?

 

[The Iron Mark]

What do you mean DC of 34? What's this about DC 166/5?

 

[Jondor_Battlehammer]

The two Polymorph spells are exactly similar, save duration. I think the assumption is that if you polymorph someone else, it is going to be into something like a Candy Striped Rot Grub. You could assume that it would only last a day, or that you could dispell it at will, or have the other seeds you use in the spell creation alter it's duration. I have not taken a close look at spell seeds yet, so I speak lightly.

 

[Thistleknot]

What do you mean DC of 34? What's this about DC 166/5?

That would be the Spellcraft DC to create the spell and cast the spell. This spell would change someone from humanoid to Adamantine Golem for the duration of the spell.

Spellcraft DC 166 comes from: Transform Seed DC 21, Damage Reduction (Supernatural Ability): +10 DC, Change Creature Type Humanoid to Construct: +5 DC, Magic Immunity (Extraordinary Ability): +10 DC, Trample (Extraordinary Ability) +10 DC, Medium Size Creature to Huge Size Change +12 DC, 39 HD over 15HD Base: +78 DC, 1-action casting time: +20 DC

This DC seems fine if I'm going to permanently transform someone into an Adamantine Golem. It seems a little high if they don't want the spell to be permanent.

To make an Epic Spell permanent, you multiply the final Spellcraft DC after all the factors by 5. My thought was, that if you are taking the spell from being permanent to non-permanent, you might divide it by 5. Following that reasoning, I divided the 166 Spellcraft DC by 5 and got 33.2. Rounding that up, I got my final Spellcraft DC of 34.

That final DC doesn't quite sit well with me, but neither does having the permanent duration forced on the spell. So I wanted some suggestions for what an appropriate spellcraft reduction factor might be for changing the duration from permanent to some time duration (probably dependent on the duration)

Hopefully, that clarifies my reasoning and my question more.

 

[Krafen]

This doesn't answer your question directly, but since dispel magic automatically dispels the caster's own spells, the permanent duration isn't really forced upon the caster.

Just to clarify, either your NPC spellcaster or his fighter cohort has 54 HD?
"The transformed subject can have no more Hit Dice than you have or than the subject has (whichever is greater). In any case, for each Hit Die the assumed from has above 15, increase the Spellcraft DC by +2"

I would recomend using a flat Spellcraft DC discount for decreasing the duration rather than a multiplier. Here is my extremely rough guess:
-5 DC: Permanent to 1 day/level
-10 DC: Permanent to 1 hour/level
-15 DC: Permanent to 10 min/level
-20 DC: Permanent to 1 round/level