D&D 5E Butt end damage with Shillaleagh, quarterstaff and PAM

[ECMO3]

Using Shillaleagh on a quarterstaff and PAM

With Shelleagh "the weapons damage die becomes a d8"

The way I read that you do a d8 on the attack and a d8 on the bonus action with the butt end. Correct?

 

[pukunui]

I asked Jeremy Crawford about this back in 2017. He told me that the damage for the PAM bonus action attack would still be a d4 but that you would be able to use your Wisdom modifier for both the attack roll and the damage roll.

see here: Shillelagh + Polearm Master: damage with a staff still be a d4 or would it be a d8?

 

[Starglim]

It sounds reasonable that the bonus action's damage die is not the weapon's damage die. It's visibly a different size than the weapon's damage die, to start with.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

PAM does 1d4 bludgeoning damage. The damage of the weapon it's used on is immaterial. So you are incorrect, @ECMO3

 

[Charlaquin]

Both Shillaleagh and PAM set the weapon’s damage die, so which takes precedence comes down to which is more specific. Shillaleagh sets the weapon’s damage die to 1d8 at all times. PAM sets the weapon’s damage die to 1d4 for the attack you make with its butt end. The latter is a more specific case than the former, so it takes precedence.

 

[Charlaquin]

PAM does 1d4 bludgeoning damage. The damage of the weapon it's used on is immaterial. So you are incorrect, @ECMO3

Technically Pam does set the weapon’s damage die to a d4 (“The weapon's damage die for this attack is a d4, and it deals bludgeoning damage,”) so I can see why someone would be unsure which of the two features replacing the usual damage die would apply. The answer, of course, is that the more specific one would apply, which in this case is the one that sets the damage die for one specific attack with the weapon, rather than the one that sets the damage die for all attacks with the weapon for a set duration.

 

[Benjamin Olson]

Using Shillaleagh on a quarterstaff and PAM

With Shelleagh "the weapons damage die becomes a d8"

The way I read that you do a d8 on the attack and a d8 on the bonus action with the butt end. Correct?

PAM is a specific extra attack with a specific damage die. PAM makes no distinction in the bonus action attack between d6/d8 quarterstaffs and spears and d10 Halberds and Glaves, so I really see no basis to say that changing the normal attack die would have any relationship to the PAM bonus action attack being a d4.

 

[Kobold Stew]

Agreed on 1d4 -- the attack does not use the weapon's damage die in its calculation. As written, PAM does 1d4+STR -- even doing 1d4+WIS requires a judgement, but it is a reasonable judgment to make and (I think) within the parameters of the feat.

 

[ECMO3]

Agreed on 1d4 -- the attack does not use the weapon's damage die in its calculation. As written, PAM does 1d4+STR -- even doing 1d4+WIS requires a judgement, but it is a reasonable judgment to make and (I think) within the parameters of the feat.

PAM never mentions strength.

 

[Kobold Stew]

PAM never mentions strength.

You are right -- never work from memory. My bad.