D&D (2024) Shillelagh, Staff and PAM

[ECMO3]

Well, no, you’d need at least one of the weapons to be a scimitar, and to have used one of your weapon Masteries for scimitars. You can’t use your bonus action to attack with the Light property and use your bonus action to attack with Dual Wielder. However, you can use the Nick Mastery to attack with the Light property as part of the Attack action and use your bonus action to attack with Dual Wielder. The other Light weapon can be a shortsword though, which is probably optimal.

Yes you can. You can do this without nick if you don't change weapons between your action and your bonus action and the weapon is light. Treantmonk talks about this in his coverage of the feat.

The feat states it gives you an "Extra Attack" on your bonus action as in one more than you already have with your bonus action. Not having Nick means you have to take both of them on your bonus action and it means you must be using a light weapon for your bonus action. Having Nick lets you move a weapon with the light property to occur on your action (and let's you switch out that weapon to use a d8 weapon on the bonus).

assuming they use a rapier for dex or a longsword for str.

If I am optimizing I am using a Battleaxe for Topple and always picking strength

No extra mastery effect, since this strategy already uses both mastery slots on scimitar and shortsword.

A Fighter has 4 weapon masteries at level 5, so one more than he needs to do this.

Moreover, if you make your first action attack on your turn with your D8 weapon you can do it with 2 weapons (as noted earlier). You action would be d8 weapon, light weapon - bonus action (2nd light weapon, 2nd light weapon)

You don't need nick to do this.

This is all before accounting for Fighting Styles, of course. If we also consider Fighting Styles, the dual wielder gets an extra 8 DPR from the Two-Weapon Fighting style (+Mod to the two attacks that didn’t benefit from it)

Ok I finally got to this, yes I am obviously assuming the Two Weapon Fighting Feat.

 

[Charlaquin]

Yes you can. You can do this without nick if you don't change weapons between your action and your bonus action and the weapon is light. Treantmonk talks about this in his coverage of the feat.

What Treantmonk said in his video was incorrect, and he corrected himself later in a community post. And I quote:

Update on today’s video: Someone I know asked Jeremy Crawford at Gencon, and here’s how it works: it provides a single bonus action attack, so if you are using a weapon with the Nick mastery that’s one more attack.
Two Weapon Fighting does add your ability score modifier to the damage of the extra attack.”

Emphasis added.

The feat states it gives you an "Extra Attack" on your bonus action as in one more than you already have with your bonus action.

What it specifically says is, “you can make one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the same turn with a different weapon, which must be a Melee weapon that lacks the Two-Handed property.” Almost identical wording to the Light property, except that the Light property says that extra attack must be made with a different Light weapon.

So, if you attack with a Light weapon, the property gives you one option for how to use your bonus action: make an extra attack with a different Light weapon. If you have the Dual Wielder feat, that doesn’t increase the number of attacks you can make with the Light property, it gives you a completely different option for how to use your bonus action: make an extra attack with a different weapon, which must be a melee weapon that lacks the Two-Handed property. You can do only one or the other, as you only have one bonus action.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Shillelagh sets the weapon damage dice to d8. The extra PAM attack has nothing to do with the weapon damage dice - it's a D4 irrespective of what kind of weapon you are using. It's always a d4, irrespective of if the weapon is a halberd, staff or shillelagh.

 

[ECMO3]

The extra PAM attack has nothing to do with the weapon damage dice - it's a D4 irrespective of what kind of weapon you are using.

Actually it changes the weapons damage die to a d4. That is the wording of Pole Strike:

"The weapon deals Bludgeoning damage, and the weapon's damage die for this attack is a d4."

Earlier someone mentioned that this happens after it is changed for Shillelagh, which makes sense to me.