D&D (2024) Fixing Savage Attacker and Great Weapon Fighting.

deadman1204

Explorer
ehhh... all feats have a bigger problem. You can only ever take 1-2 (few characters hit 12th level much less 20), and all feats compete against a stat boost.
Better fix would be allowing more feats on characters in general. Feats are a huge development space where most of them are strictly bad to take due choosing between them and a stat boost.
 

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Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
Dualist is overpowered, I have always felt that, also since it prohibits two handing vwrsital weapons it makes the versatile property meaningless
Versatile is good for with the dual wielder feat. Hold your battleaxe in one hand, draw your scimitar in the other as part of your attack with it, sheathe your scimitar after. Use the scimitar’s Nick mastery to draw, attack with, and stow your handaxe as part of the same action. You’re left with a free hand so you can two-hand your battleaxe with your bonus action attack from Dual Wielder. Then if you have Extra Attack you can two-hand your battleaxe for that attack too.

(I say battleaxe mostly because I think topple is much better than sap in this setup, but you could do longsword or warhammer instead if you prefer).
 

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
ehhh... all feats have a bigger problem. You can only ever take 1-2 (few characters hit 12th level much less 20), and all feats compete against a stat boost.
Better fix would be allowing more feats on characters in general. Feats are a huge development space where most of them are strictly bad to take due choosing between them and a stat boost.
You don’t really have to choose one or the other any more since all general feats are now “half feats” that come with the +1 to an ability score.
 

Horwath

Legend
ehhh... all feats have a bigger problem. You can only ever take 1-2 (few characters hit 12th level much less 20), and all feats compete against a stat boost.
Better fix would be allowing more feats on characters in general. Feats are a huge development space where most of them are strictly bad to take due choosing between them and a stat boost.
if you feel that you need more feats just add them.

we played with 3 feats at 1st level, it broke nothing. Just adapt to increase of PC power level,
 


Pauln6

Hero
Versatile is good for with the dual wielder feat. Hold your battleaxe in one hand, draw your scimitar in the other as part of your attack with it, sheathe your scimitar after. Use the scimitar’s Nick mastery to draw, attack with, and stow your handaxe as part of the same action. You’re left with a free hand so you can two-hand your battleaxe with your bonus action attack from Dual Wielder. Then if you have Extra Attack you can two-hand your battleaxe for that attack too.

(I say battleaxe mostly because I think topple is much better than sap in this setup, but you could do longsword or warhammer instead if you prefer).
I don't think this particular combination will work quite the way you hope. Most likely, the official interpretation from 2014 will stand, that you have to be wielding weapons in both hands when you make your FIRST attack in order to qualify for the bonus action/nick attack. Since you have to attack with your main weapon to trigger the bonus attack you need your off-hand light weapon in hand when you draw your main light weapon (or your battle axe if you have the dual wielding feat).

You can only draw OR sheath OR drop your weapon as part of your attack. So if you were already holding both weapons at the start of the round, you could sheath both and draw and alternate two-handed weapon but if you start the next round without weapons in both hands, you won't get your bonus action attack the following round.

So there will be occasions when this serves you and it might be more effective if your free object interaction can be used to draw/stow/drop/swap hands in combat but there will be many occasions where the juggling leaves you worse off.

So in your example you could, if already holding your scimitar, sheathing after your free off-hand attack, draw and attack with your hand axe but you would have to keep hold of it at the start of your next round unless you are allowed to stow it as your free interaction, in which case you can attack with two hands next round and draw your scimitar again as your object interaction at the end of the round.

A fighter with 3 main attacks can play around a bit more, I guess.
 

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
I don't think this particular combination will work quite the way you hope. Most likely, the official interpretation from 2014 will stand, that you have to be wielding weapons in both hands when you make your FIRST attack in order to qualify for the bonus action/nick attack.
I disagree. There’s already been errata, and this was not among the things changed, despite being among the most discussed.
Since you have to attack with your main weapon to trigger the bonus attack you need your off-hand light weapon in hand when you draw your main light weapon (or your battle axe if you have the dual wielding feat).
The Light property explicitly does not say “in your other hand” like it did in 2014, and again, that has not been changed with the day 1 errata.
You can only draw OR sheath OR drop your weapon as part of your attack.
Yes, but with the Dual Wielder feat you can draw or sheathe two weapons when you attack instead of one.
So if you were already holding both weapons at the start of the round, you could sheath both and draw and alternate two-handed weapon but if you start the next round without weapons in both hands, you won't get your bonus action attack the following round.
You can draw or sheathe a weapon (two with dual wielder) before or after your attack.
 

Pauln6

Hero
I disagree. There’s already been errata, and this was not among the things changed, despite being among the most discussed.

The Light property explicitly does not say “in your other hand” like it did in 2014, and again, that has not been changed with the day 1 errata.

Yes, but with the Dual Wielder feat you can draw or sheathe two weapons when you attack instead of one.

You can draw or sheathe a weapon (two with dual wielder) before or after your attack.
Ah yes, of course, drawing two weapons instead if one makes things a lot spicier.

Was the ruling about having a weapon in both hands at the start of the round ever official errata, or it was just a clarification of intention? I think people pinning their hopes on a ruling that you don't need to wield two weapons to be deemed to be two weapon fighting are doomed to disappointment. It's a fun mental exercise but I don't see it living long enough to see usei n any kind of organised play. It's clearly bonkers.
 

Xeviat

Dungeon Mistress, she/her
ehhh... all feats have a bigger problem. You can only ever take 1-2 (few characters hit 12th level much less 20), and all feats compete against a stat boost.
Better fix would be allowing more feats on characters in general. Feats are a huge development space where most of them are strictly bad to take due choosing between them and a stat boost.
Part of me wants to bake ability increases into the level progression at multiples of 4 and then have feats given out (without the +1 ability score) at the current ASI levels. Feats are far more fun than ASIs, but they compete too hard.
 

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
Ah yes, of course, drawing two weapons instead if one makes things a lot spicier.

Was the ruling about having a weapon in both hands at the start of the round ever official errata, or it was just a clarification of intention? I think people pinning their hopes on a ruling that you don't need to wield two weapons to be deemed to be two weapon fighting are doomed to disappointment. It's a fun mental exercise but I don't see it living long enough to see usei n any kind of organised play. It's clearly bonkers.
In the 2014 PHB, there is a specific two-weapon fighting rule in the combat section. It says, “When you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon that you're holding in one hand, you can use a bonus action to attack with a different light melee weapon that you're holding in the other hand. You don't add your ability modifier to the damage of the bonus attack, unless that modifier is negative.”

In the 2024 rules, this rule no longer exists. Two-weapon fighting is a function of the Light weapon property itself, which says, “When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a Light weapon, you can make one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the same turn. That extra attack must be made with a different Light weapon, and you don’t add your ability modifier to the extra attack’s damage unless that modifier is negative.” Unlike the 2014 rule, this does not say that the second light weapon needs to be in your other hand.

Additionally, in the 2014 PHB you can only draw or sheathe one weapon per turn, with your free object interaction (or two with the dual-wielder feat), unless you take the Use An Object action to draw another. However, in the 2024 PHB, the rules for the Attack action say, “You can either equip or unequip one weapon when you make an attack as part of this action. You do so either before or after the attack. If you equip a weapon before an attack, you don’t need to use it for that attack. Equipping a weapon includes drawing it from a sheath or picking it up. Unequipping a weapon includes sheathing, stowing, or dropping it.” Now, normally this would not allow you to draw and attack with a weapon using the Light property, because the extra attack of the Light property uses a bonus action, so you’re not making it as part of the Attack action. However, the Nick Mastery property says, “When you make the extra attack of the Light property, you can make it as part of the Attack action instead of as a Bonus Action. You can make this extra attack only once per turn.” That means, if you have Mastery with a Nick weapon such as a scimitar or dagger, you can draw or stow a weapon before or after the extra attack of the Light property with it, because it is an attack you’re making as part of the Attack action.

I suspect this is entirely intentional, both because it enables, for example, attacking with a rapier and then drawing and throwing a dagger on the same turn, and because despite being heavily discussed online, none of these rules were changed at all in the errata the 2024 PHB has already received.
 

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