Buying permanent modifers from you DM ?

[Phasics]

Is there anything in RAW that covers this ?

I should explain.
Normally as you adventure you collect gold and treasure , this gold and treasure can be used to buy groovy items which often boost your base stats up e.g. AC , BAB, Atributes Saves etc.
however these items are only perment to the point that they are worn, take them away and you lose the bonus.

Now what I'm after is being able to purchase permanent increases for my charcter either with gold or XP or a combination of both.

Say I want a +1 to my natural armour permently, how much would that be worth in gold ? or a +2 to my strength permently.

Heh no I'm not looking to powergame the money you'd spend on these enhancments would then not be there for buying said ring of protection.

At this point I'll mention Vow of Poverty which basically trades gold for permanent increases but there's alot of RP baggage and the bonuses are fixed, I'm looking for a bit more tailoring variety.



Now as far as a guide for how much things should cost I would assume that DMG pg 135 wealth per level would be a good guide. But is there anything in te RAW which you could use to accurately charge for these permanent bonuses ??

obviously a permanent increase would be worth more than an item with same bonus but HOW much more is the question ? and if you put a condition that bought permanent ability cannot stack with regular magic items would that bring down the price ???

advice, links, page numbers ?

 

[KarinsDad]

Wish would allow you to increase each of your ability scores by upwards of 5. But, it is very expensive.

There are probably some PrCs that allow for Natural Armor, etc., but I suspect the limit on these are probably closer to 3 and that is after you take close to 10 levels in the PrC. For example, you can get DR 3/- from Annointed Knight.

The game system is designed around items. Permanent gains are much more expensive and rare.

 

[afata5]

Well for one thing, you could always either cast wish, or pay someone to cast wish on you and ask for a stat increase...costs alot, but thats the way I know how to do it

-Al

Edit: Was beaten to it by a mere few seconds

 

[Dracomeander]

The only way I can think of to get non-item dependent bonuses are from the various Manuals and Tomes that provide inherent bonuses.

The problem with them is how they are presented. Inherent bonuses are not upgradable by RAW. Inherent bonuses overlap therefore to increase from a +2 inherent bonus to a +3 requires you to pay the full cost of the +3.

The only other way I know of to get bonuses intrinsic to the character are through feats, racial & template abilities, or class abilities.

 

[wmasters]

There's some precedent for this already with the manuals and tomes which tell us that +1 to a statistic is worth 28,750gp + 5,100XP.

To work out how much more it's worth I guess you could compare a permanent +2 Con to an Amulet of Health. The amulet is 4,000gp, the +2 con from the manual would be 57,500gp (55,000 to buy the tome, plus 2,500gp spent when reading it and doing whatever it tells you you need to do) + 10,200XP.

So based on this precedent the permanent bonus is worth just under 15 times the price in gp, with a decent chunk of XP consumed as well.

[sblock=SRD]Manual of Bodily Health: This thick tome contains tips on health and fitness, but entwined within the words is a powerful magical effect. If anyone reads this book, which takes a total of 48 hours over a minimum of six days, he gains an inherent bonus of from +1 to +5 (depending on the type of manual) to his Constitution score. Once the book is read, the magic disappears from the pages and it becomes a normal book.
Strong evocation (if miracle is used); CL 17th; Craft Wondrous Item, wish or miracle; Price 27,500 gp (+1), 55,000 gp (+2), 82,500 gp (+3), 110,000 gp (+4), 137,500 gp (+5); Cost 1,250 gp + 5,100 XP (+1), 2,500 gp + 10,200 XP (+2), 3,750 gp + 15,300 XP (+3), 5,000 gp + 20,400 XP (+4), 6,250 gp + 25,500 XP (+5); Weight 5 lb.[/sblock]

 

[Teydyn]

There's some precedent for this already with the manuals and tomes which tell us that +1 to a statistic is worth 28,750gp + 5,100XP.

Uhm, you missunderstand the priceline here.

Its either 27500gp to buy or 1250 gp + 5100xp to create (2500gp for the book, halfed to 1250gp + 100xp and 5000xp for the wish).


And thats way too much for a normal enhancement bonus.

A magical item slotless costs double, so 3* or 4* normal cost for a non-removeable "tatoo" or special effect should be ok?

 

[the Jester]

The reason that tomes et. al. are so expensive is because permanent, non-stealable bonuses are so good. No way would I let you get away with a measly x2 to the cost; being "slotless" alone will double the cost! I think you're underestimating just how much better permanent bonuses are vs. items.

 

[Artoomis]

You could run a character with Vow of Povery, if you want to be equipment-independent.

Perhaps you could talk you DM into making a variant of Vow of Poverty? Maybe as a prestige class?

Or perhaps one of the anti-maguc prestige calsses would work for you (weren't there one or two of them? Use up magic items for boosts - something like that?)

 

[wmasters]

Uhm, you missunderstand the priceline here.

Its either 27500gp to buy or 1250 gp + 5100xp to create (2500gp for the book, halfed to 1250gp + 100xp and 5000xp for the wish).


And thats way too much for a normal enhancement bonus.

A magical item slotless costs double, so 3* or 4* normal cost for a non-removeable "tatoo" or special effect should be ok?

Yes, ok, that'll teach me for posting before I've had coffee...

So it's just the 27,500gp for the book at a +1 stat, or 55,000 for the +2 tome. Compared to the +2 stat boost item that puts the price at 13.75 times the price as the precedent for the DMG.

Of course, this multiplier gets less the bigger the stat boost that you're buying. The +4 stat boost is 16k on an item, or 110k from the manuals, so only 6.875 times the multiplier, and when you're buying an enhancement bonus of at least +28 it's actually cheaper to buy the manuals...

It's possibly not a very helpful precedent as a result but it's the only one I can think of according to RAW. Personally I'd be hesitant about allowing it at all (but then I'm always hesitant about allowing wierd items, particularly slotless items).

 

[Bad Paper]

Say I want a +1 to my natural armour permently [sic]

That's 4,000gp for chitin grafts, from Lords of Madness. The formula is (nat armor bonus squared) times four, and it maxes out at +5 for 100,000gp.