OD&D [BX/OSE] Spell Area of Effects?

[Marc_C]

Reading the rules I just remembered they do not include area of effects for spells.

- How do you handle that for spells like Hold Person. A group of 1-4 individuals can be targeted. How far apart can they be and still form a group?

- Multiple Magic Missiles. If targeting more than one enemy how far apart can they be?

This is more critical in the wilderness than in the dungeon. I don't recall how our group handled that.

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Disclaimer: please spare me the mansplaining of various D&D editions. I've played all editions since 1980. I'm reconnecting with BX after a several decades. I just need factual answers. Thank you. ;-)

 

[MrZeddaPiras]

Hold person: I would say distance between the targets does not matter. Each must be within range and they must be a "group", whatever you decide that means. So I would say it can't be used against members of two different parties in a three-way combat, or perhaps if you have a fight with different types of monsters all the targets must be of the same type (but there must be at least a few individuals per "group" or you're penalizing the players).
Magic missiles: it creates one or more missiles that last for 1 turn. Within this time each can be shot at a target within range. No correlation between the targets is necessary.

(I'm referring to the wording in OSE, because that's what I got at hand right now)

 

[Monayuris]

I run it any creature within range that the caster can see.

In a dungeon it is easy, pretty much anyone in the room.

In a wilderness if a caster is surrounded by 4 orcs one in each direction, he can hold person or magic missile each of them. To me a group is an encounter of creatures. A group of orcs is a group if they are all standing together or if they are 100' apart.

Same thing with sleep. It will work on all creatures within the range of the spell (including PCs).

 

[Mannahnin]

Some spells specify AoE, certainly? I was just looking at Phantasmal Force the other night, for example, and it specifies that the illusion must fit within a 20 x 20' area.

For Hold Person and Magic Missile I don't believe AoE is relevant. They each target individual creatures within range.

 

[Voadam]

It would depend on the specific spell description.

From Moldvay Basic:

Magic Missile Range: 150'
Duration: 1 turn
A magic missile is a glowing arrow, created and shot by magic, which does 2-7 (Id6+1) points of damage to any creature it strikes. It will automatically hit any visible target. For every 5 levels the caster has gained, he or she may shoot two more missiles when casting the spell. EXAMPLE: a 6th level magic-user may cast three missiles. These may be shot at one target, or the caster may choose to cast the missiles at different targets.

Hold Person Range: 180'
Duration: 9 turns
The hold person spell will affect any human, demi-human or human-like creature (bugbears, gnolls, gnomes, hobgoblins, kobolds, lizard men, ogres, ores, pixies or sprites). It will not affect undead or creatures larger than an ogre. The victim of this spell must save vs. Spells or be paralyzed. This spell may be cast either at a single person or at a group. If cast at a single person, that person must save vs. Spells with a penalty of -2 on the die roll. If cast at a group, it will affect 1-4 (d4) persons, but with no penalty to the saving throws.

Magic missile I see no reason in the description to not say different targets anywhere in the range no matter how far apart.

For Hold Person defining a group is more ambiguous. It is arguable that any member of a defined group anywhere in range could be affected (the group Team Chaos is flanking us!). A group could also reasonably be defined as a proximity cluster (that group brawling over there).

In more modern terms the hold person ambiguity is also a target ambiguity issue.

 

[Lanefan]

In 1e there's a bunch of spells that use the Hold Person model, where you target x-number of creatures in a 'group'; what I did for a lot of these spells (but not Hold Person specifically) was add an area element such that the targets all had to be within a certain area, almost always smaller than the spell range. Targets for my version of Haste or Slow, for example, must all be within a 40x40' area somewhere within the spell's range.

 

[ccs]

If an area/restriction wasn't specified we'd have likely run it as all targets must be in range & LoS.
For B/Xcmi t's been so long ago though that I forget if we had any house rules on the subject.

 

[Shiroiken]

IMO spells that can target a number of creatures just has to target any creatures within range, unless explicitly stated otherwise. A "group" is a nebulous term, however, and I'd check with your DM. If you're the DM, I'd consider a group to be creatures of the same type within 30 feet or so of each other, not separated by the party.

 

[Mannahnin]

Right. For the purposes of Hold Person I always just understood the "group" to be comprised of the multiple creatures you chose to target. Not members of some undefined group external to the spell.

 

[Marc_C]

Right. For the purposes of Hold Person I always just understood the "group" to be comprised of the multiple creatures you chose to target. Not members of some undefined group external to the spell.

Yes, I think that is the correct reading of the word 'group'. The group is created by selecting individuals to be targeted. As opposed to the group of 3 gnolls standing 15' from each other.

I did looked up the Basic Mentzer and Rules Cyclopedia. Hold Person has a 40'x40' area of effect.

Haven't decided which I will use.