CA/Carc: Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil

[Merlion]

Seeing as how the Wardings can be dispelled, I dont see it as a super big deal.

 

[Haffrung Helleyes]

overpowered

OK, I really like this prestige class from a flavor perspective. It's really cool.

But I am thinking that it's overpowered too!

I do not have my books handy, but as I recall the various veils can be put up as immediate actions. There is a veil for basically everything bad that could happen to a wizard.

Wizard being attacked by bad guy? put up the 80 damage save for half veil, as an immediate action.

Wizard fighting spellcaster? hit him with kaleidoscopic doom...the 7th level initiate power (available at character level 16). Enemy spellcaster loses a bunch of his buffs, takes at least 60 points of damage (assuming he saves) and 6 points of CON damage (assuming he saves). Who can survive that?

What am I missing here? Is it the feats lost? This prestige class involves the loss of 5 feats (the 3 useless feats to enter, plus the 10th level and 15th level wizard feat). But the seven veil powers are way, way more powerful than any five feats. And the PrC, unlike many others which are far less powerful, grants full spellcaster progression.

I'd actually like to be wrong about this, because I actually suggested to one of my players that he aim for this prestige class. Then I read it, and it's hard to see how I could challenge his PC without wiping the floor with the others, if I allow it.

Advice?

Ken

 

[Derren]

Seeing as how the Wardings can be dispelled, I dont see it as a super big deal.

What makes you believe so? The fact that the wardings mimic a prismatic wall which is undispellable?

 

[Felix]

And those wardings? Don't make me laugh. Wall warding (or better yet, Prismatic Wall with the oh-so-yummy +2 DC) from behind, Refusal and Repulsion in front. Now use a Ring of the Ram to slam the hapless heros into their walls of DOOM!

It's a good combo, but it takes a few rounds to develop. Meanwhile the direct-damaging sorc has landed Two [Empowered] Cones of Cold and a [Maximized] Fireball on your allies. If you have time to play with, the Initiate is stronger, but that's a big 'ol IF.

Wizard being attacked by bad guy? put up the 80 damage save for half veil, as an immediate action.

I was under the impression that he could make a Reflex save (or even just choose not to cross the veil) to keep from being hit with the 80 hp save-for-half thing.

Wizard fighting spellcaster? hit him with kaleidoscopic doom...

You'd better hope that your Initiate is not going to fight more than one enemy mage per day. Besides, the earliest a caster is going to get this is (IIRC) 16th level. Not a ridiculous ability for that level, consider the spells available.

But I am thinking that it's overpowered too!

A big mitigating factor is that the abilities modify Abjuration spells, which while very good at protecting you, are less good at directly hurting enemies. It takes longer for an Initiate to work you over than, say, an Elemental Savant who is very good at directly damaging enemies. That's why the abilities enhance the Initiate slightly more... what they do is (slightly) less threatening.

The fact that the wardings mimic a prismatic wall which is undispellable?

The proper spells will take down the wardings. Spells like Magic Missile for one color, Gust of Wind for another, Dispel Magic for a third... and I don't think these have to make a dispelling caster-level check... they automatically succeed.

 

[Derren]

The proper spells will take down the wardings. Spells like Magic Missile for one color, Gust of Wind for another, Dispel Magic for a third... and I don't think these have to make a dispelling caster-level check... they automatically succeed.

Yes, but that is not dispelling the wards but countering (or destroying them) which is a bit harder to do than normal dispelling (I don't think many mages have gust of wind or passwall memorized)

 

[Felix]

Yes, but that is not dispelling the wards but countering (or destroying them) which is a bit harder to do than normal dispelling (I don't think many mages have gust of wind or passwall memorized)

I wouldn't say harder, per say. Just less likely when caught unawares. Of course, any wizard that gets caught unawares is toast to begin with. This rewards PCs who think to find out information about the enemy before running headlong into their lair.

And if you know you're going to be fighting an Initiate then you'd better bloody well have Gust of Wind and Passwall memorized.