Campaign Brainstorming
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Fists.o.Fury
First Post
BardStephenFox said:
I loved the necromantic engine that powerd the flying ship. I wouldn't like a similar engine powering a 4 wheeled buggy - for some reason there is a difference to me. I guess I just don't like the idea of things that are real being used in a game. Sure, it would be neat to see things like that - but that's not what I expect from a dnd game. The flying ship was different to me because It's not something we've ever seen. Do I make sense? So third world is probably the best idea - yeah.
Oh, one other thing - High technology is probably not the term i'm looking for. To be honest i'd love to play something with a 'High' technological level but not dnd. Perhaps starwars or even something like Doom or another d20 modern game. In DnD, I still like the idea of magic being superior to technology, swords and bows being the dominate on the battlefield and things like gunpowder and flying ships to be fantastic and rare . This is not to say some great technologies don't exist they're just not common. Higher technologies have their place in other games!
I love the HP system. I've literally grown up with it. Every game, from video to PnP, that was in the RPG genre has used that system. I wouldn't give it up for a million dollars (Well maybe
) Other then that though i'd prefer to keep the HP system. IF (ONLY IF) we had to/everyone else wanted to, I'd suggest we switch to the true20 method. That looks pretty neat (but not as neat as HP).
On another note - I've always wondered why armor didn't give damage reduction. This is something i'd love to change. In my mind that's what armor was really for. Sure it helped you avoid hits sometimes but it's true purpose was to prevent you from getting hurt when you GOT hit. I'd love to make this change!
BSF
Explorer
Meowzebub said:
No worries. I don't even expect everyone to answer. Just because some people are that ambivalent on the mechanics. But there are several interesting variants out there that might make for an interesting feel and tone to a game. As well, I am looking at moving away from pure generic D&D fantasy and providing some mechanical flavor to differentiate the next campaign and game world from previous gaming experiences.
BSF
Explorer
One thing that I probably didn't make very clear is the implication of how damage and HP end up working. If you look at the different ways that damage is handled, you will recognize that there are certain ideas and concepts that do not work as well depending on how damage is handled. These can be fundamental things that change the entire flavor of a campaign. Let me give you an example using yet another alternative system.
HP as defined by your constitution stat & level.
OK, that sounds straightforward enough right? I mean, that is what D&D uses right? At least it looks like it, until you realize I mean, quite literally your Con stat.
Let's take a 1st level fighter with Str 16, Con 15, Dex 10, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 9 - Classic 25 pt build.
In normal D&D, you would figure out HP by maxing out a d10, then adding Con bonus: 10 + 2 = 12.
In this variant, you would figure out HP by using the Con score and adding in # of HD: 15 + 1 = 16
At second level, the D&D base fighter would add in a d10 + Con bonus for HP. The variant fighter would add 1, for the second HD.
At 10th level, our D&D fighter would likely be approaching 100+ HP.
Our variant HP fighter would have Con stat + 10. Since it would be likely that the character bumped up Con at 4th or 8th level, we will assume 26 HP.
That's it! 26 HP for a 10th level fighter.
Most of you will sit there right now with your eyes huge, maybe with your jaw open and you are thinking that this guy will be killed in one bad crit. You might be thinking there has to be some sort of catch. Because right now even a couple of goblins looks kinda scary to a 10th level fighter.
Actually, that is the point. A campaign style where death is always that close does a lot to change the mood and ambiance of a game. It is a constant reminder that death might be one longbow shot away. (Mighty composite longbow +2 1d8/x3 could get a crit and do 30 points of damage.) The thing is, this type of campaign style can still be very enjoyable. This type of campaign becomes heroic because of what the PCs do in the face of that danger rather than the fact that they can wade through an entire tribe of goblins and might not even get scratched.
In the face of danger, our heroes boldly assembled to stalk into the graveyard at midnight to finally face the ghoul terrorizing the town. Some, perhaps even all, of them might not live to see the sun rise. But they girded themselves to face this evil because the people of this town did not deserve to be preyed upon by the forces of darkness. They shouldn't have to live in fear that one night they might be woken by the smell of a charnel house as a coldness froze their limbs just before the teeth of the ghoul tore at their flesh. The townsfolk said the ghoul could not be beaten. But our heroes stood to face the ghoul. Because in the face of such depravity and darkness, somebody had to. Else, goodness and hope would fade from the world.
It is a completely different style of heroism, but it is a perfectly viable game style to play. D20 has that flexibility to use the same basic mechanics and just change a few things to adjust the play style. So when I ask questions about changes, part of what I am looking for is what style of game you might find enjoyable. Default D&D is almost like fantasy superheroes. That can be fun. But if you are looking to have that feeling of constant danger and heroes are defined by the people who face that danger, standard D&D isn't the absolute best way to handle it. D&D with tweaks and adjustments could work though. So be sure to think through some of those implications and comment on them. There isn't a right or wrong answer, there are just the things you think might be fun.
All that being said, I did not bring up the above variant HP system because I am not sure we would all enjoy the significant changes it would bring about. It could make for a fun mini-campaign, but for a long-term game, I just don't know.
HP as defined by your constitution stat & level.
OK, that sounds straightforward enough right? I mean, that is what D&D uses right? At least it looks like it, until you realize I mean, quite literally your Con stat.
Let's take a 1st level fighter with Str 16, Con 15, Dex 10, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 9 - Classic 25 pt build.
In normal D&D, you would figure out HP by maxing out a d10, then adding Con bonus: 10 + 2 = 12.
In this variant, you would figure out HP by using the Con score and adding in # of HD: 15 + 1 = 16
At second level, the D&D base fighter would add in a d10 + Con bonus for HP. The variant fighter would add 1, for the second HD.
At 10th level, our D&D fighter would likely be approaching 100+ HP.
Our variant HP fighter would have Con stat + 10. Since it would be likely that the character bumped up Con at 4th or 8th level, we will assume 26 HP.
That's it! 26 HP for a 10th level fighter.
Most of you will sit there right now with your eyes huge, maybe with your jaw open and you are thinking that this guy will be killed in one bad crit. You might be thinking there has to be some sort of catch. Because right now even a couple of goblins looks kinda scary to a 10th level fighter.
Actually, that is the point. A campaign style where death is always that close does a lot to change the mood and ambiance of a game. It is a constant reminder that death might be one longbow shot away. (Mighty composite longbow +2 1d8/x3 could get a crit and do 30 points of damage.) The thing is, this type of campaign style can still be very enjoyable. This type of campaign becomes heroic because of what the PCs do in the face of that danger rather than the fact that they can wade through an entire tribe of goblins and might not even get scratched.
In the face of danger, our heroes boldly assembled to stalk into the graveyard at midnight to finally face the ghoul terrorizing the town. Some, perhaps even all, of them might not live to see the sun rise. But they girded themselves to face this evil because the people of this town did not deserve to be preyed upon by the forces of darkness. They shouldn't have to live in fear that one night they might be woken by the smell of a charnel house as a coldness froze their limbs just before the teeth of the ghoul tore at their flesh. The townsfolk said the ghoul could not be beaten. But our heroes stood to face the ghoul. Because in the face of such depravity and darkness, somebody had to. Else, goodness and hope would fade from the world.
It is a completely different style of heroism, but it is a perfectly viable game style to play. D20 has that flexibility to use the same basic mechanics and just change a few things to adjust the play style. So when I ask questions about changes, part of what I am looking for is what style of game you might find enjoyable. Default D&D is almost like fantasy superheroes. That can be fun. But if you are looking to have that feeling of constant danger and heroes are defined by the people who face that danger, standard D&D isn't the absolute best way to handle it. D&D with tweaks and adjustments could work though. So be sure to think through some of those implications and comment on them. There isn't a right or wrong answer, there are just the things you think might be fun.
All that being said, I did not bring up the above variant HP system because I am not sure we would all enjoy the significant changes it would bring about. It could make for a fun mini-campaign, but for a long-term game, I just don't know.
BSF
Explorer
Planar Interactions
One thing that hasn't been a particularly strong element in our games has been planar travel and interaction. Obviously the Agents of the Gods campaign is delving into planar aspects, but the focus is still very much on the material plane.
Planar travel can be interesting, but it isn't particularly necessary. It is quite possible to play without ever invoking planar elements. Or to minimize their impact greatly. Many games that include the planes include the default 'Wheel' cosmology of D&D. This is OK, but it isn't one I particularly appreciate. It allows for some types of planar interactions, but not others. Which is why I hodge-podge my own planar cosmologies together.
The thing is, it is easy to design a poor cosmology, but not realize it until after you find out what kind of game you want to run/play in. Which is why I am asking in advance. How much planar activity would you like to see in a game? None, a little, a lot, it's all about hopping the planes? You get the idea. If I am going to put together a campaign specific document, it makes sense to include all the changes to spells and the like at the beginning of the campaign. So what would you like to see?
One thing that hasn't been a particularly strong element in our games has been planar travel and interaction. Obviously the Agents of the Gods campaign is delving into planar aspects, but the focus is still very much on the material plane.
Planar travel can be interesting, but it isn't particularly necessary. It is quite possible to play without ever invoking planar elements. Or to minimize their impact greatly. Many games that include the planes include the default 'Wheel' cosmology of D&D. This is OK, but it isn't one I particularly appreciate. It allows for some types of planar interactions, but not others. Which is why I hodge-podge my own planar cosmologies together.
The thing is, it is easy to design a poor cosmology, but not realize it until after you find out what kind of game you want to run/play in. Which is why I am asking in advance. How much planar activity would you like to see in a game? None, a little, a lot, it's all about hopping the planes? You get the idea. If I am going to put together a campaign specific document, it makes sense to include all the changes to spells and the like at the beginning of the campaign. So what would you like to see?
BSF
Explorer
Classes
As you have probably guessed, the removal of Clerics and Monks will carry over into the next campaign.
Divine spellcasters will be covered, in all likelihood, by the Priest from Priests of the Celestial Spheres, the Faith Caster and the Thaumaturge from Path of Faith and the Shaman from the Shaman's Handbook. I'm still contemplating whether I will include the Druid or not. I might also include the Chosen from Unorthodox Clerics and a class named the Avatar from the Avatar's Handbook. I would likely change names around a little bit, but the mechanics of those two classes are the important part.
The monk is being excised. Within the fighting classes, we will include the Martial Artist. We will also add the Beast Lord, which specializes in non-weapon combat. The Barbarian is going to be adjusted a bit and will reflect mechanics instead of culture. The fighter will still be the hard core combat specialist. The ranger will still be pretty much the same. There are a few other classes I am looking at, but I haven't decided yet.
I am considering whether the Paladin will be a core class or not. One possibility would be to make it into a prestige class. This would allow RP to answer the Call to be a Paladin. But that might not be optimal. So I am very interested in hearing what everyone else thinks.
I am very much looking at changing the Sorcerer and the Wizard around a little bit. Mostly in relation to familiars and some of the fluff. The Sun Mage will continue to exist and I will probably add a witch class.
The rogue will still be in place. The Bard will be, essentially, the same. We will just use the material from the Enchiridion of Mystic Music. There is a class from Path of Shadow that I am looking at called the Delver. I am also considering the Wanderer from Swashbuckling Adventures. Felix seemed to be pretty cool using it.
Finally, I will be using classes from the Expanded Psionic's Handbook as well as the Psychic from the Psychic's Handbook.
It is a lot of material to be sure. But I am choosing stuff that seems to fit a good niche and has mechanics that I like. I might still add new material, or rethink a decision and take stuff out. I am open to suggestions from all of you so if you have something on your mind, please feel free to share it! That is what this entire thread is about in any event.
As you have probably guessed, the removal of Clerics and Monks will carry over into the next campaign.
Divine spellcasters will be covered, in all likelihood, by the Priest from Priests of the Celestial Spheres, the Faith Caster and the Thaumaturge from Path of Faith and the Shaman from the Shaman's Handbook. I'm still contemplating whether I will include the Druid or not. I might also include the Chosen from Unorthodox Clerics and a class named the Avatar from the Avatar's Handbook. I would likely change names around a little bit, but the mechanics of those two classes are the important part.
The monk is being excised. Within the fighting classes, we will include the Martial Artist. We will also add the Beast Lord, which specializes in non-weapon combat. The Barbarian is going to be adjusted a bit and will reflect mechanics instead of culture. The fighter will still be the hard core combat specialist. The ranger will still be pretty much the same. There are a few other classes I am looking at, but I haven't decided yet.
I am considering whether the Paladin will be a core class or not. One possibility would be to make it into a prestige class. This would allow RP to answer the Call to be a Paladin. But that might not be optimal. So I am very interested in hearing what everyone else thinks.
I am very much looking at changing the Sorcerer and the Wizard around a little bit. Mostly in relation to familiars and some of the fluff. The Sun Mage will continue to exist and I will probably add a witch class.
The rogue will still be in place. The Bard will be, essentially, the same. We will just use the material from the Enchiridion of Mystic Music. There is a class from Path of Shadow that I am looking at called the Delver. I am also considering the Wanderer from Swashbuckling Adventures. Felix seemed to be pretty cool using it.
Finally, I will be using classes from the Expanded Psionic's Handbook as well as the Psychic from the Psychic's Handbook.
It is a lot of material to be sure. But I am choosing stuff that seems to fit a good niche and has mechanics that I like. I might still add new material, or rethink a decision and take stuff out. I am open to suggestions from all of you so if you have something on your mind, please feel free to share it! That is what this entire thread is about in any event.
BSF
Explorer
Just a bit of commentary here.
I am asking all of these questions to see what you guys think you prefer with your gaming 'experience'. I am pretty sure that, as a group, we don't want to delve down into completely immersive roleplay 90% of the time. I am pretty sure we don't want to go for pure combat 90% of the time. But these are just balances, they don't define the style and environment. Right now I am asking more about style and environment.
As an example, if everybody felt that fantastic locations are implausible and detract from the game, then you are kind of looking for a more earthlike environment. If you also wanted more technology and a more lethal change to the HP system, then you might be looking more for a modern day style game.
There is nothing wrong with that. Nor is the above assessment an absolute. Perhaps I overthink things, but it is important to me to hear what you find interesting. D&D is a genre unto itself. But in the context of our niche hobby, the baseline is rather generic. I am looking to make the next experience less generic and hopefully more geared toward what each of us enjoy. It takes work, and it involves communication. So that is what I am doing.
Now if you truly don't have any preference and you are perfectly willing to always play within the parameters that are defined by others, there probably isn't much you want to say. But if there are things you think would be cool, or uncool, and you want to have more fun, give it some thought and post. Finally, if nothing else, I hope these posts give you a little more insight into the things I think about regarding DMing for a game.
I am asking all of these questions to see what you guys think you prefer with your gaming 'experience'. I am pretty sure that, as a group, we don't want to delve down into completely immersive roleplay 90% of the time. I am pretty sure we don't want to go for pure combat 90% of the time. But these are just balances, they don't define the style and environment. Right now I am asking more about style and environment.
As an example, if everybody felt that fantastic locations are implausible and detract from the game, then you are kind of looking for a more earthlike environment. If you also wanted more technology and a more lethal change to the HP system, then you might be looking more for a modern day style game.
There is nothing wrong with that. Nor is the above assessment an absolute. Perhaps I overthink things, but it is important to me to hear what you find interesting. D&D is a genre unto itself. But in the context of our niche hobby, the baseline is rather generic. I am looking to make the next experience less generic and hopefully more geared toward what each of us enjoy. It takes work, and it involves communication. So that is what I am doing.
Now if you truly don't have any preference and you are perfectly willing to always play within the parameters that are defined by others, there probably isn't much you want to say. But if there are things you think would be cool, or uncool, and you want to have more fun, give it some thought and post. Finally, if nothing else, I hope these posts give you a little more insight into the things I think about regarding DMing for a game.
BSF
Explorer
Skills
What does everyone think of the way we are currently using skills? I haven't seen very many people moving outside the normal boundaries so it hasn't really come into play yet. But would you prefer to revert back to the standard rules regarding skills? Or should we continue to use them without the 'class skills' aspect?
What does everyone think of the way we are currently using skills? I haven't seen very many people moving outside the normal boundaries so it hasn't really come into play yet. But would you prefer to revert back to the standard rules regarding skills? Or should we continue to use them without the 'class skills' aspect?
Fists.o.Fury
First Post
I dissappear for 2 days and BAM - there's like 10 posts!
Lets see...
I believe i've made my point as to what kind of gaming 'environment' i'd prefer. But as a short summary I love the Medieval setting w/ some technological spikes and fascinating places, things and even creatures or creations. I'd prefer to keep the gaming in a 3rd world setting where the norm is something I don't see every day in real life.
The amount of Planar travel we had in our previous campaign was just right or even a bit more then I'd prefer. On the scale you mentioned I prefer 'a little' planar travel. To me the planes are places only the very powerful visit and interact with regularly. Don't get me wrong - I love our planar experiences (Shadow!) but to our characters I'd prefer to keep those places on the 'fascinating' list!
My only concern regarding the changes with the classes is aquiring the material for these in the mean time. Other then that I'd prefer some new classes and 'flavors' in our games.
I personally like the skills rules we use now.
Lets see...
I believe i've made my point as to what kind of gaming 'environment' i'd prefer. But as a short summary I love the Medieval setting w/ some technological spikes and fascinating places, things and even creatures or creations. I'd prefer to keep the gaming in a 3rd world setting where the norm is something I don't see every day in real life.
The amount of Planar travel we had in our previous campaign was just right or even a bit more then I'd prefer. On the scale you mentioned I prefer 'a little' planar travel. To me the planes are places only the very powerful visit and interact with regularly. Don't get me wrong - I love our planar experiences (Shadow!) but to our characters I'd prefer to keep those places on the 'fascinating' list!
My only concern regarding the changes with the classes is aquiring the material for these in the mean time. Other then that I'd prefer some new classes and 'flavors' in our games.
I personally like the skills rules we use now.
BSF
Explorer
Fists.o.Fury said:I dissappear for 2 days and BAM - there's like 10 posts!
Lets see...
I believe i've made my point as to what kind of gaming 'environment' i'd prefer. But as a short summary I love the Medieval setting w/ some technological spikes and fascinating places, things and even creatures or creations. I'd prefer to keep the gaming in a 3rd world setting where the norm is something I don't see every day in real life.
Well, yes you have. But there are others involved in the game.
Fists.o.Fury said:The amount of Planar travel we had in our previous campaign was just right or even a bit more then I'd prefer. On the scale you mentioned I prefer 'a little' planar travel. To me the planes are places only the very powerful visit and interact with regularly. Don't get me wrong - I love our planar experiences (Shadow!) but to our characters I'd prefer to keep those places on the 'fascinating' list!
OK, keep in mind a few things here when I ask about Planar Interactions. That includes things like outsiders being included in the game, spells that interact with the planes, etc. In a game where the planes have very little interaction, there is a secondary impact.
As an example, maybe Teleport becomes a higher level spell and greater teleport doesn't exist at all. Perhaps you can't summon Elementals without using complex rituals.
On the other hand, with a lot of planar interaction, it could be that there are several places where it is possible to transfer between planes simply by walking through it. This isn't necessarily the same as stepping through a portal (though it could be) but it might be more like walking through a forest and stepping across a planar boundary into someplace like, the Wilds of Avondell.
So while I am asking for interest in adventure locations, I am also looking at the impact on the game world at large, and what secondary and tertiary impact that might have on game mechanics.
Fists.o.Fury said:
Obviously I have all the material I am using.
So you can always look at what I have. If you are looking to obtain other material, follow some of the links I drop into posts or ask for a source. In some cases I have interacted with the authors personally and I can certainly point you to where their stuff is sold.Fists.o.Fury said:
Duly noted!
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