[campaign] Drow and other races

[Inari]

I thought that I might consult you people on my modified Drow race. It's an attempt to make them a ECL+0 race, whilst still keeping them "not too unbalanced." I do realise that they might be stretching the limit to ECL+1, but all replies are welcome and wanted.

Note though that this is suppose to be balanced to AU, where each race gets an additional feat, so don't kill me for what I've done with elves. I was thinking a bit more of Tolkienish elves, than the Faerún normal elves. But anyways, here goes:

To start off, the standard elven "template" (wrong wording, but I'll let it slip):

Elven racial traits:
• Medium: As medium creatures, elves have no special bonuses or penalties due to size.
• Elf base speed is 30ft.
• Immunity to magic sleep effects, and a +2 racial saving throw against enchantment spells or effects.
• Low Light vision: An elf can see twice as far as a human can in moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. She retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.
• Weapon Familiarity with the elven slim- and longblade.
• +2 racial bonus on Listen, Search and Spot checks. Elves have great perceptive senses.
• Immortality: After reaching their maturity, elves almost cease to age. They can not be magically aged, nor die of old age.
• Automatic Languages: Elven and Common.
• Bonus Languages: Draconic, Giant, Gnoll, Orc and Sylvan.

Height and weight: Base Height Height mod Base weight Weight mod
Elf, male 4’10” +2d10 85lb x (2d4) lb.
Elf, female 4’10” +2d10 80lb x (2d4) lb.

Aging effects Middle Age Old Venerable Maximum age
Elf 110 years 175 years n/a n/a



As most can see, I've made elves immortal (*whee*) along with remove their "pass within 5 ft of magical..." But now for the Drow:


Drow (dark elves)
The Drow were originally all Eldar, but after they attempted to seize the throne, they were exiled from the surface world. They have though often broken this exile of theirs, and performed highly organized raids on the surface world. Stories tell that they’re actually hiding in some forsaken dragon citadel, deep underground, biding their time for another strike.
Regardless where their true stronghold lies, it is certain that they don’t live a peaceful nor easy life. It’s literarily survival of the fittest, as it is known that food is sparse (hence why they raid caravans), and that resources aren’t that plentiful either. The Drow have an amazingly good willpower, and even obtained a natural resistance to all spells.
Drow aren’t creatures you want to have as your opponents. They deal with their threats swiftly and without mercy, leaving nothing but the bodies of their enemies behind.
Drow all have black skin, and silvery or white hair, along with eye colors of white, red, or similar colors. They are generally shorter than normal elves, by two to four inches, but weigh about as much. They most of the time wear light armors, made of dark colors.
Drow have all the elven racial abilities, except as follows:
• +2 Charisma, +2 Intelligence, -2 Constitution, -2 Wisdom. Survival of the fittest really does apply with the Drow, as they constantly clash in their underdark.
• Innate Spell-Like Abilities: 1/day—(heightened) veil of darkness. This ability is cast by the character level of the Drow.
• Darkvision (120ft). This replaces the elven low light vision.
• Skills: Unlike normal elves, the Drow don’t benefit from the standard +2 to listen, search and spot.
• Weapon familiarities: The great esteemed arts of wielding the elven Slim and Warblade have been lost to the Drow, meaning they don’t benefit from it.
• Light blindness (Ex): Drow suffer a -1 circumstantial penalty to attack rolls, saves, and checks when in sunlight. The penalty becomes -2 if it’s unusually bright light.
• Spell resistance of 5 + character level + cha modifier
• Automatic Languages: Undercommon and Elven
• Bonus Languages: Abyssal, Common, Draconic, Giant, Goblin and Sign Language.
• Drow are considerably shorter than normal elves, and as such, follow a different height and weight system than normal elves.
Height and weight: Base Height Height mod Base weight Weight mod
Drow, male 4’5” +2d6 85lb x (1d6) lb.
Drow, female 4’5” +2d6 80lb x (1d6) lb.

The biggest changes are of course their more limited innate spell abilities, their reduced stat modifiers, no skill modifiers, more powerful (and harmful) light blindness, reduced (but more variable) SR, and no weapon familiarities.

The real question is just if this is fair, making them ECL+0. So what do you think, people?

 

[Mistwell]

SR of any kind is too powerful for EC 0. Give them a bonus to saves vs. spells instead.

 

[Inari]

So, how big of a bonus are we talking about? A +4? +6? +8?

I'd personally go for a +6 vs. all spells, +8 to the will saves. What do you people think?

 

[Staffan]

I'd go for +2, like dwarves.

Also, Heightened Veil of darkness is IIRC a 3rd-level spell. That's pretty powerful for a LA+0 race.

 

[Inari]

Well, it is a lvl 3 spell, true, but it's the closest thing I found to D&Ds Darkness. I could of course just make it an independant ability not connected to any special spell, and copy the "Darkness" spell into the campaign, but I feel kind of bad doing so.

But (excuse my french) only a +2? It seems a bit weak, but it might just be me... I'll take it though under careful consideration.

 

[Sejs]

I'd personally go for a +6 vs. all spells, +8 to the will saves. What do you people think?

Not for ECL 0, not by a longshot. Like was stated above, a +2 would be more in line. Not all things are equal, and a +6/+8 to saves is far more powerful a return than should be garnered for something like losing a weapon familiarity or s +2 to spot and listen. Anyway, to look at it point by point:

• +2 Charisma, +2 Intelligence, -2 Constitution, -2 Wisdom. Survival of the fittest really does apply with the Drow, as they constantly clash in their underdark.

If you're gunning for stat bonuses because they're all about, as you said, survival of the fittest... a Wisdom penality I don't think would be the way to go. That's a penality to both will saves, and any 'perception' type skill. If anything I'd swap the charisma and wisdom mods around. They're smart (+int), alert and willful (+wis), but they suffer from the traditional elven physique (-con), and because of the harsh nature of their society they don't end up being very personable. They're inherrantly self-centered and it usually shows thru quite quickly (-cha).

• Innate Spell-Like Abilities: 1/day—(heightened) veil of darkness. This ability is cast by the character level of the Drow.

Remove the heighten and you're getting closer. Races with a spell-like tend to have either a handfull of cantrips, or one 1st to 2nd level spell once per day. Anything more than that is just asking for ECL.

• Darkvision (120ft). This replaces the elven low light vision.

Vastly improved nightvision would normally be asking for an ecl jump, but it balances out nicely with the light sensativity, below.

• Skills: Unlike normal elves, the Drow don’t benefit from the standard +2 to listen, search and spot.

Any reason why not, other than to trim off some abilities? Seems like those skills in particular would be very handy for a Drow.

• Weapon familiarities: The great esteemed arts of wielding the elven Slim and Warblade have been lost to the Drow, meaning they don’t benefit from it.

Too busy surviving to dedicate frolick time to swordplay. I can dig it.

• Light blindness (Ex): Drow suffer a -1 circumstantial penalty to attack rolls, saves, and checks when in sunlight. The penalty becomes -2 if it’s unusually bright light.

As above, balances out the superior darkvision nicely. Make sure to define what 'unusually bright light' qualifies as - sunlight or the radius of a daylight spell is only a -1.. what's brighter than that, and isn't immediatly blinding?

• Spell resistance of 5 + character level + cha modifier

Get rid of it. A +2 to save vs spells would be in keeping with 0 ECL. If you want to give them another save boost (something I don't personally recomend, but dwarves throw everything out of whack), maybe give a +2 vs poisons because they're so commonly used in their society or something.

• Bonus Languages: Abyssal, Common, Draconic, Giant, Goblin and Sign Language

All well and good, but uh.. one question. There alot of giants in the underdark?

 

[Inari]

Not for ECL 0, not by a longshot. Like was stated above, a +2 would be more in line. Not all things are equal, and a +6/+8 to saves is far more powerful a return than should be garnered for something like losing a weapon familiarity or s +2 to spot and listen. Anyway, to look at it point by point:

Arright, a good point. I admit, it was originally a desperate attempt to squeeze in SR, but I do agree that it would be in order. So people do agree with the +2 to all saving throws. Would it be unbalanced to then also give the +2 to will vs. spells and spell-like abilities, like they normally have? Maybe reduce it to +1?

If you're gunning for stat bonuses because they're all about, as you said, survival of the fittest... a Wisdom penality I don't think would be the way to go. That's a penality to both will saves, and any 'perception' type skill. If anything I'd swap the charisma and wisdom mods around. They're smart (+int), alert and willful (+wis), but they suffer from the traditional elven physique (-con), and because of the harsh nature of their society they don't end up being very personable. They're inherrantly self-centered and it usually shows thru quite quickly (-cha).

Sounds good and dandy. It was originally the idea that the elite guards, the high rated assassins would be mageblades, so I feel somehow wrong about giving them a penalty to cha, as a stat... but would a -4 penalty to diplomacy, gather info, and such related skills be a bit better? That or no bonus to wisdom (either sounds like a viable idea to me, but I came here looking for a second opinion)

Remove the heighten and you're getting closer. Races with a spell-like tend to have either a handfull of cantrips, or one 1st to 2nd level spell once per day. Anything more than that is just asking for ECL.

Oops, my bad... Veil of Darkness is a lvl 1 spell, so the heightened form is only lvl 2 spell. Hope that ends that.

Vastly improved nightvision would normally be asking for an ecl jump, but it balances out nicely with the light sensativity, below.

Any reason why not, other than to trim off some abilities? Seems like those skills in particular would be very handy for a Drow.

Too busy surviving to dedicate frolick time to swordplay. I can dig it.

No comment needed, you said it yourself.

As above, balances out the superior darkvision nicely. Make sure to define what 'unusually bright light' qualifies as - sunlight or the radius of a daylight spell is only a -1.. what's brighter than that, and isn't immediatly blinding?

The right wording should be to have a -1 penalty when in bright situations (meaning a normal not-so-sunny day to us), but a -2 penalty when in direct sunlight (hence, the bright day. A strong sunset might even impose a -3 penalty). Hope that answers it

Get rid of it. A +2 to save vs spells would be in keeping with 0 ECL. If you want to give them another save boost (something I don't personally recomend, but dwarves throw everything out of whack), maybe give a +2 vs poisons because they're so commonly used in their society or something.

Well, it might be in order to mention that dwarves don't get such insanely good benifits in the setting. Doesn't really concern this, but thought I might point it out.

All well and good, but uh.. one question. There alot of giants in the underdark?

The thing is that like I said, all drow were originally another race, the Eldar, who are righty now the rulers of the lands. It might though be a good idea to remove the giantish language from that list.



Anyways, thanks a lot for that output I'm still open though to suggestions.

 

[Pevishan]

And to give them all the things you were wanting to, there are racial levels.

 

[Inari]

And to give them all the things you were wanting to, there are racial levels.

Yeah, I had imagined so anyways. Truth be told, most of these things were kind of demands from a friend of mine who loves Drow... he's the one behind the underdark region, and he really takes it close. For example, when I suggested that maybe part of their curse was not to be immortal, he freaked out on me. Same goes when I told him I had to get a second opinion about it, he freaked and started getting all hostile. Funny guy, I tell ya.

Anyways... The idea is then maybe to just give Drow a +2 int, -2 con

and about the Drow levels... I was thinking something like this (just an idea from the top of my head)

Full BaB (ever been in the underdark? Point prooven )
Good Reflex and Will, poor fortitude.
d8 hp, 2+int skills, Balance, Climb, Intimidate, Jump, Listen, Sneak and Spot.
Proficient with simple weapons, the rapier, shortsword and shortbow.

1st level: +1 Dexterity, SR 5+lvl
2nd level: +1 Charisma, +1 Dexterity
3rd level: +1 Charisma, SR 10+lvl

What do you people think?

 

[Sejs]

Keep in mind that unless the race has Racial Hit Dice, racial levels do not give skill points, BA advancement, hp advancement, etc. Check out Savage Species for a full explination on how that would work.


Anyway, nah if you're friend's going to freak out on you about altering drow, particularly the big alterations that'd be needed to make them ECL 0 - I'd say just suggest he play something else.


If he continues to flip out, whap him on the nose with a rolled up magazine.

^_^