Campaign-Related Questions

[Agback]

Originally posted by rounser
It sounds like Tonguez is joking, but I'm beginning to come around to this point of view more and more.

Wilderness = Dungeon where the encounters are seperated by distance rather than walls, ...

City = Dungeon where the corridors are streets, ...

Combined with the "number of encounters per level" (13-14 generally) and the "number of adventures per campaign", then - combined with the EL system - it's theoretically possible to get rather quantitative indeed in terms of campaign planning, and plan for certain contingencies based on the form:

If the party chooses to clear some of Wilderness Area A, and all of Dungeon B, whilst completing Adventure C, then....

Very untraditional, but from this sort of framework, you could really get anal(ytical) if you wanted to. Hmmm.....

You remind me of a time the Bureau I work for got a couple of mathematicians in to teach us economists about network analysis. (They did this because we specialise in transport economics, and the bosses figured that most transport systems are networked.) The Director objected to the definition of 'network' they gave, saying "By that definition an industrial process is a network!"

"It is." said one of the mathematicians. "Most of network analysis was worked out by industrial engineers for analysing production processes."

Anyway, I will point out that at this level of analysis even a plot-driven adventure is a dungeon. Different ways to resolve scenes are equivalent to different one-way doors out of rooms in a dungeon. Thus all of RP can be abstracted to traversing directed graphs.

When you think about it this way, you understand why plot-driven adventures with heavy railroading are so dull, and why we in my circle of friends refer to them as "'tunnel of fun' adventures".

Regards,


Agback

 

[rounser]

When you think about it this way, you understand why plot-driven adventures with heavy railroading are so dull, and why we in my circle of friends refer to them as "'tunnel of fun' adventures".

Good point. (The DMG touches upon this, from memory.)

And under this framework, you can conciously choose to railroad plotspace (PCs must fight villain B after plot event A), or sitespace (PCs must go to this city next, then that dungeon) or even both - and be aware of what you're doing. Or choose railroading of neither sitespace nor plotspace...which almost guarantees the need for extensive improvising - and predict that you'll need to do that.

Campaign-wise, you can even plan for railroading plotspace when you're running sitespace non-linearly, and vice versa.

Woo.

 

[LostSoul]

Everything can be a dungeon.

A dungeon is basically a flowchart of encounters (typically these are rooms, but they don't have to be). You can move back and forth, north or south along any of the connecting lines. But that's pretty much all a dungeon is.

Take this out of the "dungeon" setting and drop it into a city or wilderness. You might get a lot more connections (eg. PCs can reach Beggar's Row from any of these other areas: A1, P2, etc.), but it's basically the same thing.

Doing this, you can skim over maps. When the PCs are in the dungeon, ask them where they want to go. "The barracks," they say. You look at your chart - they have to pass through "Gorg the Merciless'" checkpoint before they get there. Run the encounter from there, without having to describe the 400' of dungeon corridor they just walked down.

 

[Tonguez]

Everything can be a dungeon.

A dungeon is basically a flowchart of encounters (typically these are rooms, but they don't have to be). You can move back and forth, north or south along any of the connecting lines. But that's pretty much all a dungeon is.

Take this out of the "dungeon" setting and drop it into a city or wilderness. You might get a lot more connections (eg. PCs can reach Beggar's Row from any of these other areas: A1, P2, etc.), but it's basically the same thing.

Precisely my point LostSoul and exactly how I run them

Now note my statement that

EVERYTHING is a dungeon

should be paired with my statement

I suggest you do this (City-design) SimCity style ie you place landmarks then map out broad suburbs

and

No detailed Maps- just a broad outline (and descriptions are as good as detailed maps (and for the era more realistic too)

What this means then is that my typical 'map' looks something like this

Kama Town
1--2--3
/\/ \
4--5--6
/ /\/\
7--8--9

Anyway as can be seen a PC in this town can get to point 5 from points 1 2 4 5 8 & 9 but not points 3 or 7 - why perhaps area 7 is surrounded by an interior wall - perhaps it is the personal residence of the towns lord and a few other notables.

The town is then described as follows:

1 Watchtower: Ther Watchtower serves a dual purpose in this town. It is both the lookout post for the towns watch and the hanging platform from which the condemned are left to die. A gruesome sight the bare bones of former criminals left hanging here.

2 Gateway is typical of outpost settlements are study wooden gate which leads into a relatively clear space...

3 Stable Area: An area of stables and penned yards probably used for the trading of cattle and other stock. The stabling in this area covers a range of quality and price.

4 Residences
5 Market square - one guesthouse
6 Merchant shoppes
7 Residential
8 Official Buildings
9 Military quater

PCs can explore the city as they wish and may indicate what they are looking for as they move between the areas so a PC can go from the Gateway to the stables and it would be described thus "after entering the gate you find yourself in a broad clear space with the town arrayed before you. The stables and saleyards are to your left and you soon find yourself moving through the yards towards a suitable accomodation for your horse and gear. The clang of a blacksmiths hammer can be heard as you enter Tomans stable...

Each area will have a list of possible encounters (monsters = NPCs, Traps=special shops) and treasures (plothooks, information) eg we already know that area 7 is the privatee residence of Lord Sukai and thus his guard, some scribes etc

Larger areas (eg districts, countries etc) are designed along the same lines (more or less numbers depending on detail) so for instance in the Altai Mountain district Kama town might occupy area 4, area 1-2 being the Altai Mountains and area 3 being the mountain pass...

 

[zhouj]

Hmm....

Hmm, I'm tending towards the stereotyical dungeon mostly. It would reduce the dice-rolling which is annoying and it would save me the time of having to do all those wilderness encounter tables or trying to figure out a viable ecology when the choices for predators are far more common than the choices for prey. I'm also leaning towards drawing scale maps of the cities, not down to encounter level size (ie 5 foot squares) but at least to point that the PC's have enough of an idea that they can find someplace to investigate when I force them to use their brains and investigative skills rather than their dice or magical swords. I'm thinking that if I pre-make any adventure, my players will do something to force to radically change it and I can't really predict what they will do (the items Murphy's Law and chaos theory come to mind here...) and I definitely do not want to turn this into a "railroaded" adventure.

 

[Corinth]

Re: Re: I agree with Crothian and....

Eh, they're alright, but I really think they should have shown how to make something a little more useable than a land-of-the-lost dinosaur jurassic park world. But I digress.

Read the entire archive. Winninger creates many more worlds than the Jurassic Attack world seen at the end of his run. His articles go back to the 250s, so he was at it for some time and thus created multiple worlds. RTFA.