Camping: It does a body good!

[Kahuna Burger]

Those who are really, really bothered by the "resting=healing" thing could explain it easily enough.

"Though advanced healing techniques often require in-depth knowledge of herb lore, there are a few recipes commonly known throughout the land. For example, the flower Heartbloom can be dried and boiled into a tea that makes common wounds heal at an accelerated rate. The only trouble is that this flower only thrives in areas verging on the strange and oft-deadly Feywild, making it too expensive for most commoners to use except in the most dire emergencies. However, no adventuring party worth its salt would even consider braving a strange tomb without an ample supply. (Heartbloom costs 1 silver per pot's worth of herb, and one pot can heal 4-7 people.)"

So as long as the party has their supplies and the ability to boil water, they can each drink a cup of this quasi-magic tea and go to sleep, and they'll wake up reinvigorated and ready to fight.

Obviously this still depends on HP not representing physical wounds - it would be dumb for a common herbal tea to mend up all your broken ribs, etc. - but if you MOSTLY buy the "abstract HP" thing and just consider full HP at resting a step too far, this could help.

If I was going to go that route, I'd skip the tea and make it hedge magic. Mostly because I like the idea of magic that everyone can use for little things that also happens to smooth over "reality" gaps. (Why don't I ever worry about 'monthly issues' for my female characters? Because every teenaged girl learns the morning chant for when such things need to be delayed from her old auntie.)

Somehow I'm now reminded of the bit at the end of Masquerade by Terry Pratchett. Granny W travels all the way home, lays out the bandages and hot water and thread and says "OK, now I have time for it." I can somehow imagine an unbruised adventurer striding into a temple of healing, waiting patiently for his turn and then collapsing in a bleeding pile of mangled limbs.

 

[FabioMilitoPagliara]

During the day, your PC fighter faced a dozen swordsman and suffered being hit by 3 fireballs. One night of camping later, after an "extended rest," he's back to full hit points. How are you, as a DM, are going explain this crunch narratively?

hp are not damage, never they have been

damage that leave your character at more than 1 hp is just surface damage (he rolled with the blow, used his combat spirit to get out of harm, used her knowledge of magic to get out of harm, whatever it was just surface damage)

damage that put your character in death zone (between 0 and -bloodied) is a possible wound if he get back to positive hp it was still a non lethal wound, pretty brutal impact but all things considered it was just a lot of pain that kept him out of fight until back to positive

damage that put your character in death zone and then he died was a real wound

damage that put your character beneath negative bloodied was a mortal wound that killed your character on the spot

 

[Rugger]

We picked "Evil, Evil Man Mike Mearls" brain about this on friday night, and he confirmed that 4E plays up the abstract aspect of HP much more than ever before (and implied that this would be clearly described in the PHB).

As he put it, Bloodied means you are noticeably Hurt.

Also, that long rest is also implying that you are using all of your restorative abilities and such in a hand-wave to keep the game moving. Flavor-wise, it sounds to me that if your group is low on healing, you could be very justified in describing those that were most hurt as being bruised and battered (maybe even bandaged) the next day.

- Matt

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Having ran a session with the pre-gens, overall I like it.

I'm definitely going to play up the "If you were bloodied in battle yesterday, today you are wearing good clean tight bandages but are up for adventuring"

Also, if you used all your surges before going to bed you're "so tired you're asleep before your head hits the pillow" IE good luck finding someone to take the watch if they used up their surges.

Can I ask those who find the "new" system unrealistic - How did you explain high levels before? Can you're 12th level fighter really just "suck up" more hacks on his body with an axe than he could at first level?

Fitz

 

[roguerouge]

Can I ask those who find the "new" system unrealistic - How did you explain high levels before? Can you're 12th level fighter really just "suck up" more hacks on his body with an axe than he could at first level?

Fitz

Well, Fitz, I'd talk about scrapes and cuts and positioning and pounding and last second parries and so forth, until the fighter got hit with a crit or got very low on HP.

The difference between the two editions is what happens after you've verbally described an intense combat that results in a near-death experience.

In 3e, that 12th level fighter heals 12-24 hp per day and you describe his grit and determination and pain while he operates at low levels of HP. Or gets divine healing to bring him back to full health, which provides a story rationale for his returning to full health.

In 4th edition, he takes a nap for 6 hours, he's utterly and completely fine, even if he nearly died due to a fireball hitting him as he smashed into the ground from a 120' fall.

DMs are going to have come up with some reason to explain this mechanic: hedge wizardry, access to healing herbs, living downstream from the spell components dump, whatever.

In short, in order for camping to work in the way it was intended to, as the reset button, the DM is going to have to create a "special snowflake" rule that applies just to the PCs and their selected villains or bust world-building plausibility wide open.

 

[Kordeth]

In 4th edition, he takes a nap for 6 hours, he's utterly and completely fine, even if he nearly died due to a fireball hitting him as he smashed into the ground from a 120' fall.

No, he's able to fight at peak efficiency. He's still battered, wounded and singed, but because he's a Big Damn Hero(TM), he can soldier on despite the pain.

If hit point damage does not necessarily equal physical injury, full hit points does not necessarily represent the full flower of health.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

No, he's able to fight at peak efficiency. He's still battered, wounded and singed, but because he's a Big Damn Hero(TM), he can soldier on despite the pain.

The 4E designers have repeatedly said that the Bloodied condition, in addition to being a handy trigger for powers and abilities, is also great because it serves as a visual representation of how much damage a character or creature has taken.

Do you see any contradictions in your rationale for the 6-hours-rest problem and their statements?

How do characters -- and players -- know when the fighter in question is Bloodied? You can no longer go by appearances, right?

 

[hong]

The 4E designers have repeatedly said that the Bloodied condition, in addition to being a handy trigger for powers and abilities, is also great because it serves as a visual representation of how much damage a character or creature has taken.

Do you see any contradictions in your rationale for the 6-hours-rest problem and their statements?

How do characters -- and players -- know when the fighter in question is Bloodied? You can no longer go by appearances, right?

When the DM starts using Sergio Leone-style closeups on the face, that's when they're bloodied.

 

[Kordeth]

The 4E designers have repeatedly said that the Bloodied condition, in addition to being a handy trigger for powers and abilities, is also great because it serves as a visual representation of how much damage a character or creature has taken.

Do you see any contradictions in your rationale for the 6-hours-rest problem and their statements?

No.

How do characters -- and players -- know when the fighter in question is Bloodied? You can no longer go by appearances, right?

Because there's far more to a person's appearance than whether or not their bloodied, and a descriptive DM (the kind who's worried about this in the first place) can easily come up with ways to describe a character to suggest whatever they want to suggest. Examples:

"The assassin is wheezing faintly and clutching at a gash in his side, which drips bright red blood onto the marble tile. His grip trembles ever so slightly on the hilt of his dagger." <--Bloodied opponent.

"The paladin's head is wrapped in a bandage, and blood stains his tabard in several places. His face is pale, and dark circles ring his eyes, but he stands firm and resolute, his eyes showing a steely determination despite his injuries." <--Previously injured, but back to full or near-full strength thanks to rest or healing surges.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

Because there's far more to a person's appearance than whether or not their bloodied, and a descriptive DM (the kind who's worried about this in the first place) can easily come up with ways to describe a character to suggest whatever they want to suggest.

DMs have always been able to do that. That's not what the designers have said. They've said that the Bloodied condition is a deliberate signal that the creature has clearly taken significant damage in combat. They've said this is a few ways in a way places.

Your rationale for the 6HM ("six hour miracle") is contradictory to what they've said. By your rationale, a fighter that has benefited from the 6HM always looks like he's Bloodied. So under your rationale, you can't just say, "Oh, he's bruised, battered, with a gash under his eye" ... you have to add, "But he's not Bloodied. You probably thought he was, but he's not. He'll look pretty much the same when he's Bloodied, so I'll have to just let you know."