Camping: It does a body good!

[Jeff Wilder]

If that's how most people play, might as well codify it in the rules.

I agree (mostly), but they should give us the rationale for it. (And, again, they very well might. But we haven't seen it yet.)

I am not a 4E hater -- except for one deal-breaking rule -- but it seems, so far, to have this systematic approach of just not caring about verisimilitude, or about immersion in any roleplaying sense. And I'm not too proud to admit that I want and need that in an RPG. In a CCG? No. In a MMORPG? No. In a CMG? No. But in an RPG ... absolutely.

And it's not just the lack of it ... it what the lack of it says about how the designers seem to expect 4E to be played.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

Of course, I've also been losing blood in a manner that incapacited me and took a while to heal.

The former is modeled by 4e (and IMO, every incarnation of D&D), the latter is not (likewise with other incarnations of D&D).

It's been modeled in every edition of D&D, prior to 4E, if by "a while to heal" you're willing to accept "days." (Speaking personally, I'm much more willing to accept "days, good as new" than "six hours, good as new." Neither is believable. One of them spits its unbelievability in your face.)

 

[Brown Jenkin]

Addendum:
I can see as a possible house-rule for the more simulationist inclined that not all Healing Surges return each day, but instead only one per day. "Healing Surges left" now represent your lasting injuries. It's off course grittier, and you might want magical effects that replenish the "lost" surges.

Add to list of house rules that might make 4E more enjoyable for me.

 

[Pale Jackal]

Because 'bloodied' is just a game term. You're worn down. You're getting exhausted. That's what the 'bloodied' status means.

Indeed. Maybe you've got a few minor cuts, or a bloody nose. "First blood" may have been drawn, but it's not the end of the fight.

D&D has always been like this. The same rationales I was using in previous editions of D&D, can be used now, in some ways, it's actually more consistent. In previous versions of D&D, if some damage was simply fatigue, why wouldn't resting an hour cure a significant amount? Why do you need a CLW when X% of damage was fatigue? You could describe it as only physical damage [though that's just as silly.... a fighter shrugging off twenty physical longsword blows is kind of ridiculous, since these blows are by definition (in D&D) ones that bypassed your armor to a certain extent. I guess if you REALLY want, you can describe a good portion of those blows as VERY minor cuts, but that's no different from 4E's take], or you could rationalize it as divine favor that has been lost...

As another poster said, spirits/totems are another means of describing physical HP, or every being is simply magical... it's inherent in the setting. It could be your soul, fate, or the luck of the gods. (Actually, the latter two describe "near-misses" and all that, but whatever.)

In 4E, you simply must embrace that HP does not necessarily mean you were physically hit.

 

[Puggins]

But given that, how does the game represent grievous injuries? I doubt it uses Con damage, as the designers have dissed ability damage pretty hard.

Well, I'm willing to bet that it doesn't. Just like 3.5e didn't, at least not in any sense that was realistic. Fighter guy gets stabbed in 3.5e and goes unconscious. He stabilizes miraculously at -9hp, spends at least 8 hours lying unconscious, then might jump up and be at full abilities, minus a bunch of hit points (but at no penalties).

In reality, when you go unconscious, it's usually due to one of a myriad of reasons. The thing is, most of the reasons that involve sharp edges don't have you waking up in eight hours. If you get stabbed and go unconscious, most of the time you're never waking up without someone helping you out, since that blood loss isn't getting stopped before you bleed out.

So 3.5e made ALL SORTS of concessions of realism in order to "model" long term injury, which it still didn't to any satisfactory way when the player sat down to think about it.

In a way, 4e is almost closer to reality. If you get knocked out, there's always the chance that you got knocked out by a sharp blow to the head that you can recover from quickly. If not, then you're in trouble, and you're in trouble awfully fast. No lying unconscious for eight hours before waking up- which I know happens occasionally IRL, but not often enough to worry about.

 

[Engilbrand]

Someone on the first page hit the nail on the head. This is not our reality. This is a different reality. In the D&D reality, Heroes heal much faster than people do in our reality. The rules of physics are not the same as they are for us. In D&D, I find it perfectly plausible that someone could get slapped by a dragon's tail, stand up, take a breather, run up and jump at the dragon's face. 20 foot jump in Full Plate? Makes perfect sense. High velocity slam into a cave wall? Take a second to feel better. It makes sense because it's not our world. Gods exist there. Magic exists there. Strange creatures and immortality. Planes of reality shift around and the embodiments of thoughts wander the landscape. And the idea of someone being fine a few hours after they killed a few soldiers and survived some balls of fire is somehow strange and unrealistic?

 

[Frostmarrow]

You might want to introduce mandatory rest after adventures. When the adventurers return home after an, all things considered, successful foray into the borderlands they must rest for a few days. During this time players should take turns griping about their wounds. It's an all fluff solution but it will make you feel so much better. And the timeline advances a little too.

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

Hit Points mean different things to different people. Some prefer to stay realistic, others just treat it as a game resource, most seem to describe them abstractly. What really matters isn't the particular description you use, so long as you're having fun with it cool. What matters is that within the same campaign/setting/etc you should always handle damage and healing mechanics the same way to maintain consistency.

Personally I always ask myself "What's the most f*ing metal thing I can think of." For me that means treating HP as actual raw physical damage.

It's just better when the enraged lvl17 Barbarian charges the archers being pincushioned by a dozen arrows then is run through by a pikeman. Breaks the haft of the pike and kills him with it then grabs a fleeing archer and beats the BBEG to death using him as a club. Walks back to the rest of the party where the equally high level cleric of the god of Kicking Ass calls down divine power that makes it better and smacks him on the head for not leaving any for his nightly 'paint myself in the blood of my god's enemies' ceremony.

 

[Lackhand]

You might want to introduce mandatory rest after adventures. When the adventurers return home after an, all things considered, successful foray into the borderlands they must rest for a few days. During this time players should take turns griping about their wounds. It's an all fluff solution but it will make you feel so much better. And the timeline advances a little too.

I considered this, too. I'm toying between two putative house rules, either recover 1 healing surge/day of rest OR count up number of healing surges used and, after the adventure, require that many days of downtime/healing/training.

I like the second more than the first, because it allows the players to push on whenever they like, which is unrealistic but more fun.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

Speaking of the meaning of hp, is there any word on DR in the new edition?