Camping: It does a body good!

[glass]

There is an extreme but effective way out of the problem:

describe only killing blows as an actual hit, everything else is just a near-hit that wears you down during battle. After all, most hits by a sword or axe in real life would cause the target to die.

This.

EDIT: Of course, this is doesn't really work with falling damage too well, but that is a problem with falling damage rather than with abstract hp.


glass.

 

[glass]

The one problem I always saw with this approach is: What if the "killing blow" isn't a hit by an axe or sword but merely being scratched by the enemy mage's commoner-killing, 3.5 cat familiar? (Or any other kind of negligible damage that just happens to deplete your last hit point(s)? )

'The kitten gives you a start and you lurch suddenly, opening up that old wound'. That one way, anyway.


glass.

 

[WayneLigon]

During the day, your PC fighter faced a dozen swordsman and suffered being hit by 3 fireballs. One night of camping later, after an "extended rest," he's back to full hit points. How are you, as a DM, are going explain this crunch narratively?

Warning: Hit points have always been abstract, of course, so I'm curious for pro and con views, not slamming the edition.

You answer your own question: hit points are abstract. Save for that last little handful it's all luck and circumstance boiled down into a handy bit of addition and subtraction and so I don't have a problem with them all coming back in a rush: it's not like you're a mass of burns and superating sores after getting 'hit' with that fireball. I'm pretty sure that the only real need for hit points to come back at some low amount per day was simply to give the Cleric something to do (or, actually, a reason to exist) and through some weird idea about 'balance'. Now that they don't, there's not much of a need for that class as written, which seems to be confirmed in that the cleric isn't just a healing vending machine.

Other games have their 'hit point' mechanic refresh completely after some amount of rest; there's no reason D&D shouldn't have something like that other than blindly following what was laid down in the past as gospel.

I strongly suspect that the next significant revision of the game will do away with 'hit points' completely.

Every game I played or DM'd, the cleric would blow every spell he could to get everyone back (or as close as possible) to max before resting so he could have a full load of spells the next day. Once the party had a wand of CLW, this problem went away as well.

An excellent point.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Really, in play, is this different from 3e?

Every game I played or DM'd, the cleric would blow every spell he could to get everyone back (or as close as possible) to max before resting so he could have a full load of spells the next day. Once the party had a wand of CLW, this problem went away as well.

So, if everyone played this way, why not make the rules reflect play?

On the nose, Hussar.

 

[Ahglock]

I have no problem with this rule, I just assumed every PC class has access to enough healing magic to go from 0 to full in 6 hours of rest, it kind of goes with the per encounter and at will mechanics.

I don't think the it was actually a miss thing will work well when a maneuvers fluff is described with contact involved.

The sinister assassin strikes out at you and narrowly misses, your artful dodge strains some muscles and you take 3 points of damage. The assassin with an evil look on his face twists the knife in your would and now you are bleeding, take 5 HP a round. Um Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Really, in play, is this different from 3e?

Every game I played or DM'd, the cleric would blow every spell he could to get everyone back (or as close as possible) to max before resting so he could have a full load of spells the next day. Once the party had a wand of CLW, this problem went away as well.

So, if everyone played this way, why not make the rules reflect play?

It's this verisimilitude thingy again, I guess. People heal fully each day. How? With magic, fine, it's magic, it can do anything, since we don't have it in our real world. WIthout? No way do you recover from that wound in one day, Stabby McFighter!

My take is: Feel free to say that Stabby McFighter has a nasty wound when he's bloodied or even dropped to 0 hp, if it suites the narrative. If he recovers after one day, he still has the wound - though it's mostly stitched up, and due to pure willpower and stamina, he can go on (mechanically) as if nothing happened. But the next time he is blooded/dropped, explain it by some old wounds breaking up again.

Yes, this means that HP just got a step more abstract - they wouldn't even give you a clear pointer how bad a character looks. That's not for everyone...

 

[FitzTheRuke]

I look at it this way:

Take damage that doesn't effect your status?

Lucky misses, minor thumps, armor holds up to the blow.

Bloodied?

Minor bleeding wound. Sword? Scratch, shallow puncture. Club? Good bruise. Nothing that a simple bandage wouldn't tighten right up.

Second wind brings you OUT of bloodied?

You wipe the blood from your head and grunt. Shift your armor back straight and soldier on.

Dropped below zero?

Stunned. A good winding blow. Maybe worse depending on what happens next.

Roll a nat 20 and pop up at 1/4 HP? Natural medic give you a surge with a heal check?

They weren't as bad as they looked. Some blood or gasping involved, but you really just needed to shake it off, clear your head, or catch your wind.

Died?

Well, they WERE actually as bad as they looked!

Of course, you can describe all wounds as worse when you have the cleric magically heal you.

Oh and you can say that you're still wearing the bandages in the morning, and the first good bloody-making shot of the next day's adventure "Opened yesterday's wound!"

No big deal, really. There's really no need to resort to "Heroes heal fast in this reality!"

Fitz

 

[Praeden]

My initial thought was to change 6 hours rest from full heal to heal HP = CON or perhaps heal HP = Level + Con Mod (which is what I used for my 3.5 game). Will it help with the verisimilitude? Maybe.

I was thinking along similar lines. Impossible to say how exactly to implement the change until the rules are out, but it might make for a grittier and more believeable game. From a dramatic perspective, I think there's a lot to be said for PCs to sometimes wake up still wounded and feeling awful.

 

[Engilbrand]

Abstract HPs make perfect sense. When you move over to falling damage, that's a real injury. When you get into a fight, you're not as able to avoid all of the blows as well, so it doesn't take as long as it normally would for you to get knocked unconscious or killed. Boom. Done.

 

[Aloïsius]

Why? Why does being knocked unconcious HAVE to be described as a serious wound? Heck, you can get knocked out without serious wounds.

Because at 0 hit point, you are 3 rolls away from being dead. Sure, you can stabilize (with a 10 ), but the need to stabilize imply that you are dying and that the wound is a serious one.

Abstract HPs make perfect sense. When you move over to falling damage, that's a real injury..

But you will heal from that real injury in six hours, even if you were dying and stabilized at the last round...

Think about it :
round 1 : Joe fighter slip off the wall, fall 120 feet. Take huge damage, ends in negative HP, dying.
Round 2 : Joe fighter roll to stabilize : 7, it's a miss, he is still dying.
Round 3 : Joe fighter roll to stabilize : 4, it's still a miss, he is stille dying.
Round 4 : Joe'player throw the dice but close his eyes and wait for the other player to announce the result. 14. Joe is not dead.
...
There is no magical healing in the party. Joe Fighter is still unconscious. Assuming he is not eaten alive by scavengers, he wake up 6 hours later, without a scratch.




That's what I don't like with 4e insta-healing. It makes a good game-play in NWN, but it sounds bad on a table-top game.