Can a ‘normally’ wood hafted weapon be made with a metal haft?
Sunderstone
First Post
I would do a -2 penalty for steel and adjust the hardness by 2 and the hp by 10 for all metal hafts regardless of metal type (like having a +1).mvincent said:
Furthermore, Id offset the penalty and allow the character to take an "Exotic Weapon- whatever the weapon is" feat for his next feat and eliminate the penalty. This would reflect practice and training.
Elder-Basilisk
First Post
I would allow some weapons--battle axes, handaxes, etc--to be made with steel hafts. I would not allow polearms to be made with metal hafts. That said, to the degree that sundering is a problem, I think there are other solutions:
1. The magic is in the weapon's head. The pole is just that, a wooden pole. Sundering the haft is relatively easy, but has no effect upon the weapon's enhancement. Put a new haft on it and it's ready to go.
2. Harder woods. Bronzewood, ironwood, etc come to mind. Darkwood doesn't do anything for hardness, but the ironwood spell and IIRC bronzewood do have more hardness and hit points. At the cost of a magic weapon, it would be relatively trivial to make them all out of exotic woods or have them ensorcerelled by druids. It's a bit like fullplate. There's no point in non-masterwork fullplate. You're already spending 1,500gp; why not spend 1,650gp and be able to enchant it later. Another similar case is magical heavy armor other than fullplate. Sure, you could make some, but if fullplate is available to you, there's no point in doing so: the fullplate--magic or non-magic is cheaper and offers better protection (except in the corner case of +1 banded mail which is slightly cheaper than non-magical fullplate and offers better protection than half-plate to any character with a dex bonus)).
3. Metal lugs. Historically, a lot of polearms would have long thick metal lugs attaching the head to the shaft precisely to prevent sundering. You could allow these to grant a bonus to hardness and hit points or even simply grant the hardness of a metal weapon.
4. Mithral hafts--I hadn't thought of that, but it makes some sense.
Personally, I like 1 and 2 and would give serious thought to 3 and 4, but I wouldn't allow steel-hafted glaives in my game.
1. The magic is in the weapon's head. The pole is just that, a wooden pole. Sundering the haft is relatively easy, but has no effect upon the weapon's enhancement. Put a new haft on it and it's ready to go.
2. Harder woods. Bronzewood, ironwood, etc come to mind. Darkwood doesn't do anything for hardness, but the ironwood spell and IIRC bronzewood do have more hardness and hit points. At the cost of a magic weapon, it would be relatively trivial to make them all out of exotic woods or have them ensorcerelled by druids. It's a bit like fullplate. There's no point in non-masterwork fullplate. You're already spending 1,500gp; why not spend 1,650gp and be able to enchant it later. Another similar case is magical heavy armor other than fullplate. Sure, you could make some, but if fullplate is available to you, there's no point in doing so: the fullplate--magic or non-magic is cheaper and offers better protection (except in the corner case of +1 banded mail which is slightly cheaper than non-magical fullplate and offers better protection than half-plate to any character with a dex bonus)).
3. Metal lugs. Historically, a lot of polearms would have long thick metal lugs attaching the head to the shaft precisely to prevent sundering. You could allow these to grant a bonus to hardness and hit points or even simply grant the hardness of a metal weapon.
4. Mithral hafts--I hadn't thought of that, but it makes some sense.
Personally, I like 1 and 2 and would give serious thought to 3 and 4, but I wouldn't allow steel-hafted glaives in my game.
the Jester
Legend
Why not? I'd just increase the weight and cost slightly.
Sure. edit: The weapon should increase in weight by, say, a pound (assuming that a metal handle, being stronger than wood and not designed to cause bludgeoning damage, can be thinner than a club) and in cost by 4gp or so.
A wooden handle reinforced with metal strips would get half a pound weight increase, half the HP/hardness increase and increase in cost by 1 gp, because you're not forging a strong shaft, just doing some simple blacksmith's work.
A wooden handle reinforced with metal strips would get half a pound weight increase, half the HP/hardness increase and increase in cost by 1 gp, because you're not forging a strong shaft, just doing some simple blacksmith's work.
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I voted "Sure."
Before I continue, I must say: IANAB (I Am Not A Blacksmith)
It would seem to me that there are 2 ways to make such a haft and not have a penalty based upon mass/balance:
1) the haft is designed like a sword-tang or rod, which is then wrapped in materials to get the grip to the correct diameter for wielding in battle;
OR
2) the haft is a hollow tube, which is then either wrapped like a sword hilt or textured (studs, diamonds texture, rings, fat & skinny sections, etc) for reducing slippage...
In either case, the mass of the weapon would be virtually unchanged. The hardness should probably increase as well.
The COST would definitely skyrocket, though.
...and you'd be VERY popular at the Rust Monster Happy Hour.
Before I continue, I must say: IANAB (I Am Not A Blacksmith)
It would seem to me that there are 2 ways to make such a haft and not have a penalty based upon mass/balance:
1) the haft is designed like a sword-tang or rod, which is then wrapped in materials to get the grip to the correct diameter for wielding in battle;
OR
2) the haft is a hollow tube, which is then either wrapped like a sword hilt or textured (studs, diamonds texture, rings, fat & skinny sections, etc) for reducing slippage...
In either case, the mass of the weapon would be virtually unchanged. The hardness should probably increase as well.
The COST would definitely skyrocket, though.
...and you'd be VERY popular at the Rust Monster Happy Hour.
Machiavelli
First Post
Ok, making a solid shaft with low-grade steel (by modern standards, hand-worked steel is mediocre at best in most applications) wouldn't be as easy as making a thin rod of the same weight as the wood. To get the most out of a steel shaft, so that it's in some manner superior to wood, you have to get fancy with it. Make it hollow, make it shaped like an I-beam or a C-channel, that sort of thing.
For a weapon's handle, to keep both weight and strength in mind, your best bet is to reinforce a wooden haft with steel strips. The weight doesn't have to increase by a large percent, and the end result will be at least as strong as a blade. After all, blades are built tough, but they are still rather thin, so they must be flexible or else they will break when struck on the flat.
The trouble with metal reinforcement is the extra expense, usually, because one of the advantages of a spear is that you can manufacture, say, ten of them for every sword, so you can equip an army ten times as large for the same cost in time and materials. For an adventurer, just go ahead and reinforce your haft. Double the expense (at least, but you can afford it for your single weapon), add %20 to the weight (or %50, if the math is easier that way), and give it the hardness of steel with a little more than the HP of wood.
Bingo, done. I voted "other".
For a weapon's handle, to keep both weight and strength in mind, your best bet is to reinforce a wooden haft with steel strips. The weight doesn't have to increase by a large percent, and the end result will be at least as strong as a blade. After all, blades are built tough, but they are still rather thin, so they must be flexible or else they will break when struck on the flat.
The trouble with metal reinforcement is the extra expense, usually, because one of the advantages of a spear is that you can manufacture, say, ten of them for every sword, so you can equip an army ten times as large for the same cost in time and materials. For an adventurer, just go ahead and reinforce your haft. Double the expense (at least, but you can afford it for your single weapon), add %20 to the weight (or %50, if the math is easier that way), and give it the hardness of steel with a little more than the HP of wood.
Bingo, done. I voted "other".
EyeontheMountain
First Post
Sure, but I would probably limit it to magical weapons, where the differences can be hand-waved. Normal and masterwork, including Dwarvendraft would still be wooden.
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