Can A Dominated Creature Make a Save Against Magic Circle Against Evil?

[airwalkrr]

Based on this earlier thread, I decided to poll EnWorld for your opinion. So speak up! Here is the situation: A spellcaster casts dominate... on another creature and orders that creature to resist becoming undominated (I would think this is implicit, but for the sake of clarity we will assume it). An ally of the dominated creature is currently the target of a magic circle against evil and takes a move action so as to place the dominated creature within the area of the magic circle against evil. Does the dominated creature receive a saving throw to resist the magic circle (which would suppress the domination)?

 

[Starglim]

Making players roll saves against their buddies' beneficial spells is always fun, but it would be a vicious dominate indeed that controlled the subject's will so completely that his deepest subconscious not only ceased to struggle, but actually applied his whole willpower to stay dominated. I can see that as the signature power of a demon prince, but not a mere 6th level vampire or 9th level wizard.

edit: Presuming magic circle allowed a saving throw for a creature moving into its area to resist the protection against domination, which it doesn't.

 

[Iku Rex]

Ottomh

Maybe.

If the caster did indeed order the subject to resist becomming undominated it will obey the order and attempt to resist the magic circle against evil. If it knows what will happen.

Of course, if resisting efforts to save it from a terrible condition is "against the nature" of the dominated creature it might get a new saving throw against the dominate with a +2 bonus.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Presuming magic circle allowed a saving throw for a creature moving into its area to resist the protection against domination, which it doesn't.

That's one problem.

The second problem is that the domination power is merely suppressed, not dispelled, so a very careful wording would probably be neccessary.

 

[moritheil]

That's one problem.

The second problem is that the domination power is merely suppressed, not dispelled, so a very careful wording would probably be neccessary.

I fail to see what bearing the wording has on the absence of a saving throw against being near a MCvE.

 

[ThirdWizard]

He gets a saving throw just as much as he will get a saving throw vs. scorching ray or power word kill if told to save against them. Or, heck, as much as he'll be able to sprout wings and fly becuase that's what his new master told him to do.

 

[Infiniti2000]

A definite No, as per Starglim's response.

Now, the question on whether he would save if targeted with a protection from evil would be interesting. Based on the wording by the OP, I'd say it depends on whether he recognized the spell being cast and how it would affect his domination. If he did not have Spellcraft, then he would (by default) not save vs. a harmless spell.

 

[The Forsaken One]

A dominated creature is treated by me as ex-ally anyway so doesn't even come close to gaining the effect of the magic circle untill hes rid of the mental influence. And if you still keep it going for it as per an ally then no saving throw. Its merely suppressed not dispelled

 

[mvincent]

I believe the saving throw for magic circle is intended to be for having the spell cast on you, rather than being in it's area of affect... similar to how the target of a silence spell gets a save when it is cast on him, but once in place other creatures entering the silenced area to not get a save versus the silence effect.

However, a strict RAW interpretation could conflict with that because magic circle is (inexplicably) an area spell rather than a targeted one. I believe this is a rules error*, but this thread discusses why that makes a difference.

* Especially since potions of magic circle are possible. Normally only targeted spells can be made into potions.

 

[brehobit]

I think we agree there are two questions. Let me clarify the situation. A has magic circle cast on him. A walks next to B.

Question #1: Does B have the option of making a save to ignore the effects of the spell?
Question #2: If B does have the option of making a save, can a dominate force B to make a save?

Though I seem to be in a minority here, I don't see the argument for #1 that B doesn't even get a choice in making the save. The spell reads that anyone within 10' is affected by a PrE. PfE allows a save.

I can imagine times when you'd want that save. In one of the Lord Darcy books (good series btw) there was a character who was an insane murderer, but had been (fairly happily) bound/dominated to be unable to attack another person. Such a person may well wish to not have the spell affect him. Once it was, he would become a killing machine destined to be killed himself. Not harmless for him. Would you really want to not give him a save?

Question #2 is much harder, and IMO, would depend upon the commands given and a DM judgement call.

Mark