Can a duelist use two-weapon fighting?

[Mal Malenkirk]

Re: Re: Re: Can a duelist use two-weapon fighting?

Ah, but with a few levels of monk, you could do some serious damage with a kick and STILL not use a weapon in your off-hand, thus preserving precise strike.

I wanted to get you thinking on the designer's intent.

It's obvious that the designer didn't intend this loophole.

 

[Davelozzi]

Off Hand Parry?

What about only attacking with one hand but parrying with your other via Off Hand Parry? Would the precise strike damage apply to the attacks with your primary hand? I don't have my books with me so forgive me if they cover this.

 

[Ristamar]

Well, I believe the description does say you can defend with your offhand weapon.

When using this ability, the duelist cannot strike with a weapon in the other hand, although he can defend with it.

Unfortunately, I got that description off of a website, so I can't vouch for its accuracy at this moment.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Can a duelist use two-weapon fighting?

I wanted to get you thinking on the designer's intent.

It's obvious that the designer didn't intend this loophole.

Obvioos to some people. I have players however, who will argue the intent means squat. The letter of the law is what counts.

That said, do you hink it would be unbalancing to allow it?

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

I have players however, who will argue the intent means squat. The letter of the law is what counts.

That said, do you hink it would be unbalancing to allow it?

The letter kills the spirit.

And yes I would think it's unbalancing. Let me guess, the monk player wants to use his offhand to delivers stunning attack, right?

He could do that, but he'd lose his precise strike for the round.

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

Well, I believe the description does say you can defend with your offhand weapon.

Yes you can. The best thing to do is use a buckler if you're proficient.

 

[wolff96]

Offhand

Yes you can. The best thing to do is use a buckler if you're proficient.

Actually, the best thing is to use the Off-Hand Parry feat to get more benefit from that offhand AND to have a weapon ready in that hand for when you come up against undead, oozes, etc., that don't care about your precise strike damage.

Then, once you're about 20th level and very rich, make it into a +5 defending dagger or some such nonsense...

Is it just me, or can the duelist get pretty silly at high levels, especially in the defense area?

Let's see... Leaving silliness like defending weapons out of it, you get your Dex and Int to AC, a +2 for Off-Hand Parry, +10 for fighting defensively (only a -4 to a class that gets fighter BAB? Ha!), and since the Elaborate Parry doesn't replace the normal fighting defensively bonus, you get ANOTHER +2 from that source.

Let's take a fighter (took the tumble and perform cross-class) and give her a 20 in Dex and Int (that counts the levelling bonuses) and (to be fair) a 10 STR. This character attacks at 16/11/5/1 (21/16/11/6 with Weapon Finesse)for 4d6 with an AC (naked!) of 34. And a very weak will save, I know.

Seems kind of funny compared to a fighter with his AC of 23 -- fighting defensively in full plate and with a large steel shield, dex of at least 12 -- and the exact same BAB...

Obviously this little comparison doesn't take magic into account -- but almost everything that the fighter can do with magic, the duelist can also. Enhancements to dexterity and intelligence, bracers of armor, and Rings of Deflection can push the AC of this theoretical duelist just as high as +5 platemail, a +5 shield, and a Ring of Deflection can get the "standard" fighter... and with the +3d6 to damage, the duelist is pretty much always better than the normal fighter at dealing out damage, even if her strength bonus is terrible.

Naturally, if the creature they fight has a high enough AC, things will balance a bit as the fighter does better at hitting the monster, since he doesn't need to fight defensively. Then again, against things that have a ridiculously high AC, I'd rather have a good defense, since they tend to hit so darn hard!

It's things like these that make me wary of the class supplements and how well they've been "tested" by WoTC.

Okay, rant over! Sorry about that, just got a little carried away...

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

Your option would cost two additional feats. Furthermore, a magic weapon is twice as expensive as a magic shield.

Given the class abilities of the duelist I would stick to the buckler. It is much more cost efficient.