Can a Lawful Good character be flexible and fun to play?

[tylermalan]

You think that most people act true neutral? I don't know if I've ever known even a single person that acted true neutral (when it mattered) often enough to actually be considered neutral. People might try to front like they don't care or think in ways that aren't LG, but at the end of the day, how many laws did they break? How much legitimate authority did they disrespect? How much evil did they accomplish? Very little on all accounts.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

You really think everybody acts as though they don't care about right/wrong and respect for authority? I mean, it definitely seems like most people try to do the right thing and have respect for authority.

No, I think the vast majority of people don't have the moral drive to be truly, in the D&D sense, aligned.

Rather, they're True Neutral with, at best, shades of a particular alignment.

It takes something, and someone, special to get out of self-family-friends focus that defines TN.

I consider myself lucky to have met a couple of them.

People might try to front like they don't care or think in ways that aren't LG, but at the end of the day, how many laws did they break? How much legitimate authority did they disrespect? How much evil did they accomplish? Very little on all accounts.

I think, in large part, you're mistaking convenience for moral rectitude.

Also, you're confusing "Lawful Alignment" with "Legal." It's a common mistake.

 

[tylermalan]

Being LG because it's convenient is still LG - again, it's the actions that you take that matter. And lawful characters respect legitimate authority, no? What else would you call laws, the people that make them, and the people that enforce them if not legitimate authority? Also, many moral philosophers (including recent moral philosophers) have argued that doing good things out of convenience is just as good as doing good things out of a drive to make the world a better place.

I suppose YMMV, but the vast majority of people I've ever known will, when presented with a choice, do good things instead of either bad things or nothing at all.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Being LG because it's convenient is still LG - again, it's the actions that you take that matter.

I completely disagree with that. "Why" is often just as important, if not moreso, than "what."

 

[tylermalan]

If the "why" changes, and then changes again, and then changes again, and then changes a thousand more times... but the result obtained from completion of the action is one that is considered "good" (using whichever set of criteria you prefer to use), then is the act good or bad? Let's say that the result is that human happiness is generally increased while human suffering is generally decreased. I would say that it doesn't depend on the motivation. If a cure for cancer is found because of one scientist's selfish drive for fame and glory, it would be difficult to say that finding the cure for cancer was not a good act, nor would it be easy to say that the scientist who found it is not "good" merely because he didn't do it for goodness' sake.

So, essentially, following laws and doing good things while avoiding bad actions makes you look LG, and since you're obviously acting LG, you might as well be (as far as your effect on the world around you is concerned).

 

[DragonLancer]

Being LG because it's convenient is still LG - again, it's the actions that you take that matter. And lawful characters respect legitimate authority, no? What else would you call laws, the people that make them, and the people that enforce them if not legitimate authority? Also, many moral philosophers (including recent moral philosophers) have argued that doing good things out of convenience is just as good as doing good things out of a drive to make the world a better place.

I suppose YMMV, but the vast majority of people I've ever known will, when presented with a choice, do good things instead of either bad things or nothing at all.

So will TN people. It's better to have good neighbours than bad, as I recall it being said in the 3.5 PHB.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

"Good or bad" is not the same thing as "good or evil."

I would say that it doesn't depend on the motivation. If a cure for cancer is found because of one scientist's selfish drive for fame and glory, it would be difficult to say that finding the cure for cancer was not a good act, nor would it be easy to say that the scientist who found it is not "good" merely because he didn't do it for goodness' sake

Further evidence.

And I disagree vehemently on the first line.

 

[Tovec]

You think that most people act true neutral? I don't know if I've ever known even a single person that acted true neutral (when it mattered) often enough to actually be considered neutral. People might try to front like they don't care or think in ways that aren't LG, but at the end of the day, how many laws did they break? How much legitimate authority did they disrespect? How much evil did they accomplish? Very little on all accounts.

I think most people are closer to true neutral because everyone commits acts of good or evil, order or chaos.

How many laws do they break?
How much authority do they disrespect?
How much evil do they do?

The answer to all three isn't "Very little" it is as much as they can get away with. When was the last time you went the speed limit? If a cashier gives you the wrong change (in your favour) how often do you remedy it? If the police were to hassle you and have a legitimate case would you simply accept the charge and do the time or would you fight it and not want to go to jail?

Unrelated to above argument:
When that scientist finds the cure for cancer do they give it away? Sell the secret? Covert it for profit?

 

[Dingo333]

If people were truly LG, things like communism would work.
Think about it, if people always obeyed the law and did what was best for the group, capitalism would have fallen apart and communism would reign supreme.

On a whole, people are TN. Yes you have groups who are LG(communists) and CG(rebels) and LE(dictators) and CE(terrorists) but on average, humans are TN.

As Tovec put it, how many laws did you "bend" today. Did you speed? Did you disrespect someone?

 

[Marius Delphus]

In any event, alignment is for D&D characters, not for real people.