Can a Monk use Cleave barehanded?

[Christian]

I have a copy of each edition in front of me, and both the glossary entries for 'melee attack' and 'melee strike' are identical in each edition.

The following melee attack feats would be unusable by unarmed characters under the 'natural weapons are not weapons' theory: Cleave, Great Cleave, Improved Critical, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting*, Spirited Charge, Spring Attack (!!), Two-Weapon Fighting*, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus, and Weapon Specialization. (*Irrelevant to monks, of course ...) Except for Spirited Charge, this doesn't seem to make a bunch of sense. Not to mention the NPC Monk in the DMG, who gets the Improved Critical (Unarmed) feat at 12th level.

Finally, note that the Magic Weapon spell has a qualification that it cannot be used on natural weapons; this would not be necessary if natural weapons were not weapons. Although it could be argued that this is just a reminder of that fact ...

 

[CRGreathouse]

Finally, note that the Magic Weapon spell has a qualification that it cannot be used on natural weapons; this would not be necessary if natural weapons were not weapons. Although it could be argued that this is just a reminder of that fact ...

This doesn't prove the point, but the point is still correct. Unarmed strikes are weapons.

 

[Lucius Foxhound]

The following melee attack feats would be unusable by unarmed characters under the 'natural weapons are not weapons' theory: Cleave, Great Cleave, Improved Critical, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting*, Spirited Charge, Spring Attack (!!), Two-Weapon Fighting*, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus, and Weapon Specialization. (*Irrelevant to monks, of course ...) Except for Spirited Charge, this doesn't seem to make a bunch of sense. Not to mention the NPC Monk in the DMG, who gets the Improved Critical (Unarmed) feat at 12th level.

Actually weapon focus specifically makes the exception that "you can choose 'unarmed strike' or 'grapple' for your weapon for purposes of this feat."

That makes me think that other "weapon" feats that don't mention this exception aren't applicable for unarmed strike.

Then again, it still singles out the "unarmed strike" of a monk as unique (since it does real damage and not subdual damage).

Man, I hate this thread (and I think I started it).

 

[Shard O'Glase]

The thing is weapon focus is a weapon feat in that you pick a specific weapon to apply it to. Cleave and the like are mellee combat feats, you don't pick the long sword as your one and only weapon that you can cleave with. You can just cleave with anything in mellee combat.

 

[hammymchamham]

In my humble opinion:

Sages at the Beach is trying to say:

Cleve is used when dealing with a melee attack. So you can't use cleave with a ranged attack.

 

[AGGEMAM]

Finally, note that the Magic Weapon spell has a qualification that it cannot be used on natural weapons

Where do you see that ?

Magic Weapon and Greater Magic Weapon can be used with natural weapons, unless WotC issued an errata since yesterday.

 

[Christian]

Magic Weapon and Greater Magic Weapon can be used with natural weapons, unless WotC issued an errata since yesterday.

In the spell description for Magic Weapon, PH p. 225:

You can't cast this spell on a natural weapon, such as an unarmed strike.

I thought you were nuts for a second, Agg, but then I check my first printing PH, where that sentence does not appear. I don't know if it appeared in the original PH errata, as I ditched my copy after I bought the second printing ...

 

[AGGEMAM]

I thought you were nuts for a second, Agg, but then I check my first printing PH, where that sentence does not appear. I don't know if it appeared in the original PH errata, as I ditched my copy after I bought the second printing ...

God damn .. you're right !!!

It is in the errata version 2.0 (the newest), but it wasn't in the earlier version.

 

[Dr. Zoom]

That's what Magic Fang and Greater Magic Fang are for.

 

[da chicken]

WotC let Monks in NEverwinter Nights autmatically gain cleave at second level and so they can cleave at second level for free and with unarmed strike. It kix ass.

Not WotC. BioWare.

Now, repeat after me:
WotC is not BioWare, and NWN is not D&D.