Can a Phantom Steed run?

[Pyrex]

Where do you find this precedence? The phantom steed is a creature. It has HP. It has AC. It is listed as being horse like. It does not have any immunties listed which normally are listed when a creature has them {which are part and parcel of having no con score]. The spell does not have an [Evil] descriptor so it is not undead. It does not have the bonus HP a construct would have. To me that points the arrow to living or a close aproximation there of. If it is living that means it gets the default Con score. 1.

Is a Spectral Hand thus also a living creature? What about an Interposing Hand?

They both have AC's, and the Spectral Hand has HP, and neither have the [Evil] descriptor, nor do they get bonus HP from being constructs...

 

[Hypersmurf]

Is a Spectral Hand thus also a living creature? What about an Interposing Hand?

They both have AC's, and the Spectral Hand has HP, and neither have the [Evil] descriptor, nor do they get bonus HP from being constructs...

I think Frank's point is that since the spell lacks the [Evil] descriptor and the effect lacks Construct bonus hit points, the effect must be living if it is a creature, since Undead and Constructs are the only creatures that are non-living.

If we apply this same premise to Spectral Hand, we get the same conclusion - Spectral Hand must be living if it is a creature.

But there is no evidence that Spectral Hand is a creature, so we do not conclude that it must be living; the lack of [Evil] and bonus hit points only tells us something about creatures, not about non-creatures.

As opposed to Phantom Steed, which we know for certain is a creature since the spell says so. Since it is a creature, and must (per Frank's theory) be living if it is a creature, it must (per Frank's theory) be living.

-Hyp.

 

[Loincloth of Armour]

But my point is, having hp and AC doesn't make it a creature automatically.

True, but almost anything the players can interact with in a physical sense (ie: beat to death with swords or magic) has hp and AC. As Hypersmurf mentions, it is the sentence "You conjure a Large, quasi-real, horselike creature" that we believe gives this thing creature status.

And the Fiendish Dire Weasel was summoned by a Conjuration (Summoning) effect that points you to the stats of the creature. No such thing for Phantom Steed, which is an Illusion (Shadow) spell.

Check again. Phantom steed is conjuration (creation).

The lower level Mount spell, which does summon a real horse is a conjuration (summoning) spell. As one subschool (summoning) brings forth a real, living creature, it would suggest that phantom steed, a (creation) spell, doesn't summon a real thing, but creates something that wasn't there before.

I don't have access to Wyvern's Watch so I can't comment on the elements of that spell.

Sepia Snake Sigil is a conjuration (creation) [force]. However, unlike Phantom Steed, the snake sigil can not physically be interacted with like the steed can be. Using that spell for comparison is difficult.

Mage's Faithful Hound is also a conjuration (creation) spell, but again, it provides no physical body (no AC or hp). Its spell effect is to create a force that watches, barks, and attacks. Nothing else.

Phantom Steed's spell effect is to conjure (create) something that is physically like a horse, but actually has a physical body. It has a body (it can be attacked), but being quasi-real is not really alive, and thus has no metabolism... fitting the requirements for having no Con score.

And a creature with no Con score can run without fatigue... unless otherwise stated.

 

[Klaus]

Sorry on the Illusion [Shadow] thing. Must be my age showing, since Phantom Steed was a Shadow spell back in 2e (and was in my illusionist's spellbook, natch!).

 

[Cabral]

No, indeed! What makes it a creature is the line "one quasi-real horselike creature"...

Is that rules text or flavor text?

 

[phindar]

I'd vote no. I'd go by the text of the spell; its a spell effect that functions in a horse-like manner, it can carry the weight and move the speed as determined by the caster level. It's effectively tireless; it moves that speed and carries that weight for the duration.

That might be unnecessarily limiting, but its Phantom Steed. Who's going to know? Nobody is sitting around saying, "I'm 5th level, I can cast Phantom Steed!"