Can a sword and shield fighter make a natural weapon slam attack in the same round?

[Angrygodofmilk]

Can a fighter armed with a sword and shield still make a natural weapon slam attack in the same round without dropping anything? By definition, a slam attack requires an appendage. That says nothing about needing a free hand. My thought is that I could attack with a one-handed weapon, and then deal a natural weapon slam attack with an elbow (albeit with a -5 secondary attack modifier). Is that possible? Heck, a leg counts as an appendage.

 

[blargney the second]

Excellent question! This is one that I've been curious about since my buddy started playing a sword & board warforged. While the DM in that game said you can't, I'd rule the other way if someone in my game wanted to do it. I look forward to seeing other posters' replies.
-blarg

 

[frankthedm]

I say No. A Slam is like a blunt claw attack in most situations IMHO.

 

[billd91]

Can a fighter armed with a sword and shield still make a natural weapon slam attack in the same round without dropping anything? By definition, a slam attack requires an appendage. That says nothing about needing a free hand. My thought is that I could attack with a one-handed weapon, and then deal a natural weapon slam attack with an elbow (albeit with a -5 secondary attack modifier). Is that possible? Heck, a leg counts as an appendage.

I'd allow it if the PC had the Improved Unarmed Attack feat for sure. I'd allow it even without as long as the regular rules of AoO apply. The two-weapon penalties would, of course, apply.

 

[Asmor]

I'd allow it. Here's my reasoning: Monks make unarmed attacks, and are specifically allowed to make unarmed attacks even with their hands full. When a monk makes an unarmed attack, they're using their knees, their legs, their elbows, their head, etc. Not just their hands.

I can certainly understand someone having a dissenting opinion, though. Particularly in the case of a warforged's slam attack, since there's an (admittedly stupid) difference between natural weapons and unarmed attacks.

 

[avr]

There are quite a few stat blocks for warforged in various products. Not one that I've seen includes a secondary slam attack, though several include a primary slam attack as an option. Now, this could be an error, but it's one hell of a consistent error if so.

 

[frankthedm]

So would anybody be cool if this was a sword and board Vampire whose slam would take off 2 levels? I expect plenty of complaints if the vampire got the same consideration the warforged is asking for.

 

[Zurai]

I'd allow it if the PC had the Improved Unarmed Attack feat for sure. I'd allow it even without as long as the regular rules of AoO apply. The two-weapon penalties would, of course, apply.

Errr... no.

For one, natural attacks (like a slam) never cause AoOs - you are considered armed when making a natural attack.

For two, natural attacks do not cause two-weapon fighting penalties; they have their own seperate set of rules.

If the listing for a slam attack says it requires "an appendage" then you are perfectly 100% within RAW using it even if you have both hands full. It would be at a -5 penalty as a primary natural attack being used as a secondary attack, but that's it.

 

[Zurai]

There are quite a few stat blocks for warforged in various products. Not one that I've seen includes a secondary slam attack, though several include a primary slam attack as an option. Now, this could be an error, but it's one hell of a consistent error if so.

A natural attack does not need to be listed as a secondary NA to be used in addition to iterative attacks. Read the SRD section on natural attacks.

 

[Zurai]

So would anybody be cool if this was a sword and board Vampire whose slam would take off 2 levels? I expect plenty of complaints if the vampire got the same consideration the warforged is asking for.

Since it's within the RAW (assuming the OP is correct about slam using "an appendage"), absolutely.