can anyone recomend a system that allows for dogfighting?

[hong]

Worst. Game. Evar!

 

[Maldur]

Crimson skies!

 

[Hypersmurf]

There's always Heroes Unlimited

-Hyp.

 

[diaglo]

Now, come on. you were supposed to say:

"Dawn Patrol is the only true dogfighting game. All others are pale imitations."

well, i never really got into the modern warfare stuff.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

As an old-school wargamer, I favor the the grid-based tactical combat rules found in the revised core rulebook more than the abstract rules found in the original core rulebook, although I must admit it does need some minor tweaking.

Of course, you can't run a chase/pursuit encounter with grids -- otherwise, you'll be running off edge of the map, even though freestanding, you need to shift playing piece so you can still move -- so I turn to the Spycraft chase system (core rulebook and Soldier/Wheelman Class Guide.

If you're not satisfied with anything out there, make your own.

I prefer the spycraft chase system, but yes I'm trying to make my own. The biggest flaw I see in the star wars system and pretty much every d20 system I've seen so far is the ac of the vehicle is fairly static barring a few prestige classes. Your piloting skill means crap except to determine who is in position to shoot. And to me that not just a flaw that's a gigantic freakin glaring error. They should of at least added in to the pilot skill the mounted combat ability to aovid a blow once a round with a pilot/ride check.(and not as a prestige class ability) Or better yet have a free aciton maneuver that boosted your AC by an amount determined by the pilot skill result.

 

[Ranger REG]

Add it in as "new use of skill."

Or check out Blood and Guts for an example of Top Gun advanced class with barebone yet additional material on dogfighting.

BTW, I do agree, we have yet to see a perfectly good d20 aerial combat system, but I think we're heading in the right direction toward it.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

Add it in as "new use of skill."

Or check out Blood and Guts for an example of Top Gun advanced class with barebone yet additional material on dogfighting.

BTW, I do agree, we have yet to see a perfectly good d20 aerial combat system, but I think we're heading in the right direction toward it.

yes they are getting better but I put them at the now servicible level, I'd be happy with just a failry good one. Of course everyone sees things differently so others already see what we have as good.

By the way another complaint I have had is based on how turn work, if you are performing maneuvers they take an action of some type. And hey that makes some sense, problem is when combined with the attack mechanic that leaves out the possibility of a full attack. And considering all you have to do in many situations is just hold down the trigger which you can do while maneuvering this falls flat for me.(can anyone visualize a dog fight with the redbaron where they only shoot once per pass, it just falls apart for me when I think about it) I think shooting through manuel/visual firing should be assumed ot be part of the piloting/dogfighting process and let the pilot get off a full attack action.

 

[Ranger REG]

Well, I dunno. Do modern fighter jet allow you to fire alpha strike mode (i.e., let loose all weapons systems) at the touch of a trigger switch?

If so, then do what they did in Star Wars and use linked-fire. Remember, d20 Modern have autofire rules, which I use to replace the Star Wars version, so a full burst can raise the weapon damage up a die. Coupled that with linking a pair of weapons, should be a lot more lethal ... in an abstract sort of way.

Otherwise, we may have to consider using Star Fleet Battles 32-impulse turn system ... which IME, is slow!!! (Played it in my younger years.)

AFAIC, Pilot get one move action and one attack action. If he has Heroic Surge, he can get an extra attack action. If you wish, if said pilot wins the Pilot check and is on the "tail" end of the dogfight, give him a free attack action. Otherwise, it may be a good idea to have a fighter that uses a pilot and a weapons officer (he can use his full attack action to use multiple attacks).

And most importantly, do whatever you can to implement d20 Modern autofire rules.

 

[Paul_Klein]

What makes the d20 Modern autofire rules better than Star Wars's?

 

[Ranger REG]

d20 Modern autofire can offer area attack or burst fire (with feat) ... per attack. So if a PC with BAB +6/+1 use two area attacks, he can target two separate 10-by-10 areas forcing those inside to make Ref save (sorry, armor won't help) to avoid getting hit (base weapon damage) or the same area twice forcing those to make TWO Ref saves.

Or concentrate fire on one target for two additional die of damage to weapon damage, either one or both of his attacks.

Most importantly, it do away with the 3/4-page-filled multifire/autofire chart.

Oh, did I mentioned it is per attack? So if you wish to use an attack action and move in the same round, you can make one area attack or one burst fire and move at your speed, assuming your weapon can use autofire (mainly machine gun and assault rifle types).

http://www.wizards.com/D20/article.asp?x=msrd