D&D 5E Can counter spell be counter spelled?

[The Crimson Binome]

Although the counterspell can be cast at a higher level, doing so also burns up spell slots for other spells. How many spell casters want to burn up spell slot just to cast counter spells?

If you spend a spell slot to cast Fireball, and the enemy counters it, you're down one spell slot and you've wasted a turn. If you counter that counter, then you're down two spell slots, but at least you got your Fireball through. Given those two possibilities, there's no good outcome, but spending the extra spell slot is usually preferable.

Suffice it to say, this is a fantastic deal for enemy spellcasters, who normally have trouble using up all of their spell slots in one day. They can pretty much counter everything you throw at them, forcing you to waste your own slots to counter-counter, and once you've done that they can get their own spell through without resistance since you've also burned your reaction for the round (assuming they survive whatever your original spell did to them). That also means you can't cast Shield this round, which is normally the wizard's best friend against fighter types.

 

[guachi]

The somatic component for counterspell is, of course, a raised middle finger. Quick. Easy. Gets the point across.

 

[Caliban]

I guess my next question would be, "Is Counterspell a game wrecker?"

Not really, although it sure can be annoying.

Ways to deal with Counterspell:

1) Range. Counterspell has a range of 60 feet. Many spells have a longer range than that.

2) Visibility. You can only counter a spell you see being cast. If the caster is invisible (especially improved invisibility), or casting from beyond the range of your darkvision, etc - you can't attempt to counter their spell. (Unless you have see invisibility, etc.)

2b) This also applies if you can move to a spot where they don't have LOS to you when you cast, or if you can blind them or otherwise obstruct their vision.

3) Be a sorcerer with Subtle Spell. You cast without any somatic or verbal components, they can't tell you are casting a spell, they can't counter it.
http://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/03/12/sorcerer-subtle-spell-vs-counterspell/

4) Teamwork. Have another caster on your side who can counterspell their counterspell to your counterspell.

 

[Quickleaf]

IMC, enemy caster casts fireball.

PC abjurer says "neener neener" and counter spells it with a reaction and a Dispel Magic.

Enemy caster says "neener neener neener" and counters the counter spell with a reaction and a Dispel Magic.

Player calls foul because "you cannot cast two spells at once".

???

Yes, you can counterspell a counterspell. How does this look? http://slyflourish.com/making_counterspell_awesome.html

 

[Lanefan]

Ways to deal with Counterspell: ...

I never realized until reading this that the 5e RAW would even allow something this hideous!

As far as I'm concerned if you stop casting your main spell to instead cast a Counterspell then your main spell is lost, and might go wild. Casting two spells at once is just ... wrong.

Also, after having seen a few thousand too many counterspell battles in M:tG games and never ever wanting to have to DM one in my D&D game, I looked to ensure that a Counterspell could never itself be countered. It's face-palmingly obvious how when thought through:

Caster 1: starts casting Fireball
Caster 2: starts casting Counterspell vs. caster 1
Caster 3: starts casting Counterspell vs. caster 2
Caster 2: resolves Counterspell vs. caster 1
Caster 3: resolves Counterspell vs. caster 2 but now there's nothing left to counter as caster 2 has resolved
Caster 1: Fireball is countered. Pulls out a wand.

Simply put, no matter how long counterspell takes to cast sheer logic dictates they must always resolve in the same order they are begun; this isn't M:tG with last-in-first-out rules. If my CS starts before yours does then it's going to finish before yours does, end of story.

Lan-"shaking my head at the sheer absurdity of what the RAW allow here"-efan

 

[Caliban]

I never realized until reading this that the 5e RAW would even allow something this hideous!

As far as I'm concerned if you stop casting your main spell to instead cast a Counterspell then your main spell is lost, and might go wild. Casting two spells at once is just ... wrong.

Personally, I find the RAW much more logical than what you are proposing. What you are calling "sheer logic" and "sheer absurdity" are just opinions, not fact. It's just your opinion based on how you feel the game should work, which is absolutely fine for your home game. Just not in a discussion of how it is intended to work based on the written rules.

 

[Mouseferatu]

And here, ladies and gentlemen, we have living proof that identify keyword has, like teleport, a percentile roll for spell-failure.

i was in the US army and went to Liberia leaving my wife and two kids for 8 months when i returned my wife told me she was no longer interested in the marriage that if she could survive for 8 months without me the marriage is meaningless. Leaving home for 8 months was not easy but not having a family when i came back was more difficult. I pleaded continuously with her for 3 months. I even left the army just to convince her but all my attempt to get her back failed. My heart was totally broken when i saw my wife and my superior commander together in a Spanish bar. I still love her and need her to take care of my kids. I sent friends and family members to her but she refuse to come back home. This faithful day i was about to sign a friend guest book when i saw a post about a spell caster, at first i laughed but took the email of the prophet after 2days something inside of me just asked me to contact him so i did he asked for my information and that of my wife which i sent, he told me that my wife was under spell from superior commander because he has admired her for a very long time. he told me he has destroyed the spell and she was going to call me after 7 days. To my surprise she called my even before the 7th day elapsed and said she was wrong to have left me and said she want to come back home. I am using this medium to encourage other men and even women to contact this great spell caster for marital, relationship or any problems and i believe that he will help. His email is prophetabulelehealingtemple@gmail.com

 

[Lanefan]

And here, ladies and gentlemen, we have living proof that identify keyword has, like teleport, a percentile roll for spell-failure.

And that there needs to be a new version of counterspell: counterspam.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Simply put, no matter how long counterspell takes to cast sheer logic dictates they must always resolve in the same order they are begun; this isn't M:tG with last-in-first-out rules. If my CS starts before yours does then it's going to finish before yours does, end of story.

Not necessarily. It wouldn't even take magic for such a thing to make sense.

Destroying is easier than creating, as a general rule of nature, so a potential rule of casting times might be that countering a spell takes half as long as the spell itself took to cast. If it takes two seconds to cast a Fireball, then it might only take one second to cast a Counterspell against that Fireball, in which case it might only take half a second to cast a Counterspell against a Counterspell against a Fireball.

If you then consider that spells take effect instantly after they are cast, then the casting time would logically also include flight time for that spell energy to reach its target; and if Counterspells are faster than the spells they are countering, then an easy way to visualize this is that Counterspell is literally intercepting a spell in-flight, and a Counter-Counterspell is intercepting the Counterspell before it reaches the first spell that it was targeting.

I'm not saying that you need to use that model, but I happen to think it's appropriate to the genre, and it's at least as accurate of a model for such behavior as most of the other mechanics in the game; if I had started with that narrative and wanted mechanics that would make it possible, then I could well have ended up with the rules in the book in order to do so. And the existence of a model which is both consistent within the narrative, and which conforms to the rules of the game (as we understand them), proves that such a thing is not logically impossible.

 

[Yunru]

The somatic component for counterspell is, of course, a raised middle finger. Quick. Easy. Gets the point across.

As yes, the time honoured tradition of flipping someone the Counterbirdspell.